My Tips for BM Hunters

EDIT: Ive recently switched out the spirits conduit for the barbed shot conduit while using nylas burrs. With my already high haste, this has made keeping the 3 haste stacks from barbed shot up almost always 100% of the time, it also lets me cast more bestial wraths which in turn lets me cast more barbed shots on top of more dps cd’s and more bestial wraths also means my rylaks gets put into play more with it increasing pet crit damage during beastial wrath, its all synergising nicely. Ive noticed another bump in my dps so this might be the route to take if youve got around 27% haste.

heya BM hunters, been helping another BM up their dps so thought Id post some tips here. I parse very well usually in raid with my best performing average at 97% and in mythic plusses up to 16 so far Ive been very competitive. I am ilv 223 so my opinion is based on higher gear levels so far. I have absolutely no advice for pvp as I dont pvp.

EMBERS OR RYLAKS?

-Embers is a dps gain, BUT Rylaks is more than fine and is actually a dps gain on any crazy fights with alot of chaos and movement where its too crazy to use embers or its too easy to miss.
-Rylaks is a dps boost you know you can use on every bestial wrath so its good for burst windows.
-If you are going to use embers then make sure to cast tar trap, then any gcd attack, then flare, otherwise it wont work, unless your shooting trap and flare directly under you in that case there is no travel time for trap and you can cast both quickly right in a row.
-Just remember for embers the only mobs that catch fire will be the ones that trap explodes on, you cannot path mobs through the trap after its caught fire with flare, flare will not ignite the ground only the mobs initially caught in the trap.
-for maximum AoE never waste time with embers when using spirits, embers does NOT interact with spirits, on pull cast wild spirits and your other cool downs and go ham, to take the 3 gcd time to use embers will put you at the bottom of the pack in aoe, use embers after wild spirits expires and on cd after that until its wild spirits time again.
-Honestly since the buff to Rylaks Ive been using it more and more instead of Embers, I definately use it on high movement fights like Sire and on Sludge since its very hard to use embers and watch your footwork with the horrible camera angles in the sludge fight since ranged are usually along the wall. Embers is good on fights like huntsman and hungering, but really you could get away with just using Rylaks if your lazy and your dps wont lose much if anything. It sims higher but it requires perfect play to actually dps higher on long boss fights. Rylaks is just plain easier to use therefore might be much better dps gain for most of you.

AOE

Like I explained in the embers section, on pull of big packs just use wild spirits, and your other dps cooldowns and go ham, you should be able to get 20k dps and if its a long aoe fight that might settle at 10 to 15k end of fight. You would use wild spirits and any trinket or other cooldowns except beastial wrath then 2 barbed shots immediately then beastial wrath as you should be using the talent that makes beastial wrath give you 2 charges of barbed shot then your rotation described below.

I use Rylaks for most mythic plusses lately since packs die way too fast to take advantage of embers usually but if you were gonna use Embers, you would wait for Wild spirits to expire then start using embers in your aoe rotation for the rest of the pack.

Marksman was able to beat that by far before but now not so much. If you burst correctly you can land up with very similar end of fight dps even if the MM peaks at 40k, for whatever reason we sustain better and dps has looked pretty even to me when I compete with MM’s in mythic plus 15’s at the end of big long aoe pulls. The shorter the aoe fight the higher the MM dps and the bigger the difference in our numbers. We excel at longer fights. We burst lower than MM but if done correctly we still look like pretty good aoe bursters WHEN WILD SPIRITS IS UP and theres 5 mobs minimum for an extended time.

For normal aoe with or without cooldowns you want to focus on keeping your buffs up. That means beast cleave and barbed shot haste. So you use barbed shot and multishot just to keep those buffs up, kill command on cd and cobra shot every once in a while if you need filler but the higher your haste the less youll use cobra shot in aoe as youll get alot of barbed shots in with the multishot. I use Tell me when addon to show my buff icons in middle of my screen so I know when both beastcleave and 3 stacks of haste buff are up, it makes it very easy to keep the buffs up, you can also use weak auras. Both require some setup but its worth it. My rotation will look a little like: multishot, barbed shot, killcommand, multishot, cobra shot, barbed shot, multishot etc (so multishot every 3rd cast, sometimes 4th cast but 3 is good) The important thing is keeping the 3 haste stacks and beastcleave going nonstop.

SINGLE TARGET
Wild spirits is still really powerful on single target so open with that and then your other cooldowns and go nuts without going focus starved, that means careful with the number of cobra shots you use. My rotation will look like this after the dps cooldowns except beastial wrath: barbed shot, barbed shot, beastial wrath barbed shot, kill command, cobra, cobra, barbed, cobra, cobra, barbed etc. Just use kill command on cd but the main focus here is to keep the 3 stacks of haste from barbed shot up almost constantly, it will drop off sometimes but if played well you can keep it up almost indefinitely.

TALENTS
Beast companion
Scent of Blood
Natural mending
Thrill of the Hunt
Post haste
Stomp
Aspect of the beast

STATS
Stack haste as much as possible, crit also and verse has been doing well for me when I add that, mastery is horrible try to get gear that minimises your mastery and buffs everything else with the focus on haste. Things will change when we can gear better but for this period in the xpac try to get as much haste as possible. My dps recently spiked because of valor gear, I farmed rings and neck and bracer that had big chunks of haste with a smaller chunk of crit, one of my rings is the opposite, crit then haste. This really helped maxing them out to 220. If you can, replace any gear that has mastery. I still have like 30% mastery so its not easy but it was like 35% before. Now Ive got something like 26% haste, 23% crit, 7% verse, its made a difference.

CONDUIT
Niyas burrs has been performing really well, the one offensive conduit you can fit in there is the wild spirits one or bloodletting, wild spirits if you plan on alot of aoe, bloodletting makes it much easier to keep up the 3 barbed shots stacks which under pressure might be a massive dps increase since when things get hairy we often lose our 3 stacks which can drop your dps alot. If bloodletting lets you keep the 3 stacks up the entire boss fight then that is more valuable then the extra burst with wild spirits.

MACRO
Add these lines to a macro for each of your attacks:

/use [@pettarget]Claw
/use [@pettarget]Bite
/use [@pettarget]Smack

Apparently the default attack speed of your pets is actually too slow, adding these attack commands makes them attack faster and use their abilities more. I noticed a spike in my dps when I started using the macro.

So cobra shot macro looks like this:

/cast Cobra Shot
/use [@pettarget]Claw
/use [@pettarget]Bite
/use [@pettarget]Smack

CONCLUSION
Dont stress too much if you start the fight bottom of pack, we sustain really well, never stop casting, we dont have to stop for any reason unless running out of range, so dont stop your rotation while doing all mechanics and you will creep up the meter to land up somewhere competitive if you played right. I find beastmastery easier to play, which means its easier to play OPTIMALLY whereas alot of the current high dps classes are more difficult and on long crazy fights their dps will take a dip while ours just keeps going strong. The sims show the best in the world, youre not gonna play against those guys, youre just not lol. If you can play beastmaster optimally you will be an asset to your raid, unless your in a worlds first guild but who the frik is that actually? a tiny percentage of people not the people you will be playing with. I laugh when I see people mention the sims over and over when they cant actually play their class well enough that it makes a difference what they play. Beastmastery is easy to play well so if youre doing it right you can be perfectly viable. If I wasnt able to pull my weight my raid leader would have asked me to change specs but Im often in a top 7-4 position at end of fight with MM under me or next to me.

Again this is at ilv 223 with a raid. Heroic and Mythic raid level.

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Thank you for composing all of this. I’ve been doing my raids and keys as MM for this entire expansion, but with the recent changes I have found myself wondering whether BM might be a better choice in at least some circumstances. I ran BM all through the last half of BfA, and really appreciated the flexibility and mobility. I’ll be trying out BM in the near future, and I appreciate all this info.

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Thank you for this. It’s nice to see hope for us.

I am also using Rylaks because I simply couldn’t make Embers work consistently and I was so frustrated. It’s also hard to not get mastery but you do what you can. Lol.

I am certainly not on your level as I’m more casual but I’ve definitely seen an improvement with Rylaks and the buff and trying to focus on my frenzy stacks.

I’m lucky that my RL has never asked me to go MM as long as I’m willing to help with call outs and mechanics so I do the canisters on Dark Vein and help with interrupts as stuff like that.

And totally off the subject, but is “pluses” the right word? It seems like it should be, but it looks so darn weird. :slight_smile:

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The macro information is interesting; im going to give it a try!

I do enjoy the added playstyle of embers - or the intention, at least. I wish embers just…worked better. The very fact that our top legendary takes TWO isolated GCDs to even function is absurd.

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For PvE, it’s important to choose Niya as your soulbind. Grove Invigoration gives 16 stacks of Redirected Anima, which is a huge factor in why Wild Spirits is so good. 400 mastery is a substantial boost and you can also go into Wild Spirits with stacks already present. The 12% haste from Dreamweaver’s Field of Blossoms is good as well, but only triggers on Wild Spirits and requires you to stand in the flowers. Additionally, if you’re using Rylakstalker’s legendary, the extra Mastery is even better.

Something you seem to have hinted at in your AoE paragraph, but didn’t explain, is that Beast Cleave lasts for 4 seconds after you Multi-Shot. Don’t spam Multi-Shot. It costs 40 focus and only hits 5 targets. Kill Command does ~6-7x as much damage for only 30 focus. It’s hard to give a specific rotation for AoE because it will always be different, but here is what I prioritize.

  1. Keep Frenzy and Thrill of the Hunt at 3 stacks as much as possible. Learning to line up your Barbed Shot cooldowns to maximize uptime is one of the hardest parts of playing BM.
  2. After using Multi-Shot the first time, priority is Barbed Shot(if appropriate) > Kill Shot(if available) > Kill Command > Cobra Shot for the next four seconds. Then Multi-Shot again to restart Beast Cleave. The only time you should ever use Multi-Shot back to back is if you were focus-starved enough that 4 seconds has lapsed since your last cast.
  3. If you’re adept at tab targetting, drop your Barbed Shots on multiple mobs. It doesn’t stack on an individual target, but will tick away on multiple targets and increase your dps.
  4. Beast Cleave and Multi-Shot only trigger Wild Spirits once, not for every target hit. Kill Command will trigger the same as Multi-Shot while doing more damage.

In my experience, SFE is a net loss in DPS over Rylaks in general due to the loss of 2-3 GCDs necessary to use it - except when using Wild Spirits. The synergy between the two is simply too strong. Since ticks of SFE trigger Wild Spirits, it substantially increases your burst damage when needed. The end result is that SFE still sims higher than Rylaks, but it’s important to understand why. I get my best parses when I ONLY use SFE during Wild Spirits. Of course, YMMV but I’ve taken to using Rylaks exclusively. Strong and consistent is more important to me than padding the meters on boss fights.

As for the macro advice, agree 1000%. Pet AI is atrocious and ours pets will sit with full focus for several seconds sometimes, which is wasted. Macro all of your abilities that way and you will find that Bite/Claw/Smack will become one of your biggest sources of damage.

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Ah yes you reminded me to add Niyas burrs to the list, thanks.

In actual use, using embers during wild spirits significantly drops your dps, if you ignore it and just burst with your cooldowns you sky rocket up. Perhaps because by the time you cast it (3 gcds making sure it works by using a gcd between trap and flare) the pack is already half dead. Have you looked at your dps meters while using embers and spirits and when you igrore embers during spirits? Try them both and you will see a massive difference, watch dps during the aoe and right after.

Interesting.
Do you unauto these skills as well or leave them on?

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Didnt unauto them no, I think this macro just guarantees they gonna use their abilities on cd.

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Leave them on auto. Test on a dummy not using macros and you’ll see that your pet will often sit with a full focus bar. Sometimes it will only be a split seconds, but sometimes it will last several seconds. That’s multiple bites lost.

When I started to macro pet abilities, Bite went from #7-8 on damage source to #2-3.

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Been using Korayn in M+ seems to be working quite well.

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Tips for BM Hunters:

  1. Bourbon.
  2. Repeat.
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I got a tip for all bm hunter go to talents press activate markmaship or survival
your welcome

All 3 kind of suck right now. Why swap to them specifically?

Wow. Post number 11 before someone made this comment. I’m amazed it took so long.

I came to the forum to ask about the new Rylaks vs Embers, and am glad to see Rylaks working for folks. For me, it’s a matter of the base for a 235 Mail piece on my server is about 200k, and for a cloak it’s about 20k.

That’s enough of a big deal to make me consider it.

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Just gonna ignore comments saying should switch to marksman since I beat them consistently and when I dont we are close. They currently sim side by side so no idea what people are talking about. Guess outdated info before all the buffs and nerfs.

Was just top dps on mythic Hungering tonight, several reasons for this. We have only downed him twice, its still basically progression and everyone parsed grey to blue lol. I parsed blue and was top dps at 5k. So theres room for everyone to improve once they get more comfortable with the fight but more room to improve for everyone else and less room for me. I believe this is because BM is easier to play under pressure, so throw a new progression boss at me and I’ll still do ok, whereas more difficult classes are struggling to find their rhythm while learning new mechanics. I have no doubt that in a months time I’ll drop down the list to around 6th or 7th. But I’ll still be doing ok.

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And a tip for hunters that didn’t go Night Fae, sim yourself. I’m currently a Venthyr BM hunter, and while the guides online still recommend mostly even Haste/Crit (for every covenant), Venthyr actually performs better with very high crit, high haste, mid-high vers, and low mastery. Don’t take the guides at face value, because a lot of them are usually rushed if they don’t think anyone will run those options.

Edit: crit will probably also sim higher if using Rylakstalkers. Forgot about it when writing this.

Guides are written by web sites that are monetized, so they put out information as quickly as possible and usually just go with whatever a basic sim says. The problem with sims is they are great for telling you how gear will affect your abilities, but don’t factor in your playstyle or the content you’re running.

FTFY

/10 chars

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Hey brother, so googled it to make sure, soul forge embers DOES NOT interact with wild spirits at all. Which is why I noticed a significant dps increase when I stopped using it with wild spirits. I know you read it does interact as I also read that a long time ago but I think that info was from beta as it was changed before live I believe. Unfortunately many of our guides online are based on beta and little effort I guess because nobody cares about us since we simmed so low at the start of expac.

So my advice to you is to stop using embers with wild spirits immediately and youll see a big increase on your aoe.

BM yesterday, BM today, BM tomorrow, BM FOREVER!

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