My thoughts on the new Survival hunter changes

Classes Hunter
1

  1. My first main complaint is not having serpent sting as an ability. This gives survival a range button that can be used to gather mobs.

  2. Second it currently feels like you are locked behind 1 build for single target. It doesn’t feel like there is enough single target nodes on our tree.

  3. New node for Fury of the Eagle that changes the ability into a single target spell.

  4. Add Flayed shot, it felt good to press and visually looked awesome.

  5. To help add more visual enhancements replace Wildfire bomb dmg increase by 8% and change this to wildfire cluster that equals around 8% dmg.

  6. Add another single target Mongoose Bite interaction on the tree.

Talents I feel that need work are Contagious reagents, Sic 'em, Bloody Claws. What I would do to change these talents are:

  • Contagious Reagents, add a single target component if there are no nearby enemies. Cause serpent sting to consume 2-4 ticks.

  • Sic 'em changed to Killshot commands your pet to use kill command on the target. (Choice node).

  • Bloody Claws add dmg aspect to the node causing it to deal dmg based on mongoose bite stacks as well as the resets.

2 Likes
2

I love these changes, excellent stuff. I agree with you about not having a serpent sting; it will feel a bit weird. I guess survival is going to be a bit of a frontline compared to before, especially in PVP. On the other hand, one thing that still bothers me is having both raptor strike and Mongoose byte; makes no sense. Another issue I have is the Aspect of an Eagle; feels kind of meh. One last thing, and this is a big one, no more Aoe kill shot with Coordinated assault; that is a bit disappointing.

1 Like
3

I agree. I am going to miss Birds of Prey.

4

Reposting from the larger thread:

For all the improved point-efficiency, this seems a net loss for Survival.

No more Wildfire Infusions (replaced with KC instead reducing WFB CD by 2 seconds).

No more manual Serpent Sting, a downtime and mid-gather tool synergetic with Wildfire Infusions.

No more Poison Injector management available, and Hydra’s has been slightly nerfed.

Fury of the Eagle is now locked behind uninteresting and ineffective bloat that is now even more pointlessly weak.

Our capstones are even more gated by 2-point-nodes than before.

Harpoon is now even out of the way and delayed in access during leveling.

MM and SV both seem even more distinctly ST | AoE | Hybrid split in their capstones, effectively seeing MM and SV limited to just 1-2 gameplay-adding capstone choices for M+ or a given raid fight.

The new Mastery is literally Versatility… but without the mitigation, and requiring now that you don’t use Intimidate on distant enemies nor Growl-Move LoS if that’d take your pet more than 25 yards away from you. (The mitigation doesn’t scale with Mastery. You effectively just get a straight 3% mit as a spec aura-buff, doubled while near to your pet.)

  • Even a tuning buffed old Mastery would honestly have felt better, as at least then we could pop a Mastery trinket (almost 50% off a maxed Puzzle Box) just before going ham on a focus target. I’d far rather have a more narrowly targeted but high-scaling damage stat than a universal but low scaling one (i.e., a Versatility, but even more dull).

Like, I want to be happy that we’re getting changes, but… despite a couple novel gimmicks I do quite enjoy (especially, new Bombardier and, to a lesser extent, Grenade Juggler), too… I’m probably going to be having less fun if this goes live like this.

I’m okay with its loss, if only because new Bombardier largely hits the same spot, but there is currently a pretty big issue in that Bombardier makes Relentless Fury (one half of the new CA-augmenting choice node) a non-option.

Quick Accordant Suggestions:

  • Baseline Raptor Strike.
  • Baseline Harpoon.
  • Guerilla Tactics made optional or a choice node… or baselined.
  • Blood seeker moved to Row 3 directly below Kill Command, and feeding into Quick Shot and Mongoose Bite.
  • Wildfire Infusions returned, even if as a choice node against KC giving WFB CDR. Ideally with an improved Shrapnel Bomb (e.g., causes your attacks to penetrate half of enemy armor) that can better scale with ST instead of being useful only as an uncapped AoE source.
  • Replacements/rehauls for Outland Venom, Killer Companion, Explosives Expert, and Sweeping Spear.
  • Buff or replacement for Sic’ Em.
  • Stronger baseline Coordinated Assault if it is to remain gated behind a bloat-node.
  • A real Mastery, instead of just Versatility-but-without-defensive-scaling.
5 Likes
5

there is a 10 second mercy window. I do not see this being a problem like, ever

3 Likes
6

grenade juggler is a huge w
all capstones being gated by 2 pt nodes is definitively not
no lpi kinda sucks, but it effectively was just a passive throughput talent for st with a zit popping mini game in aoe, can’t say ill miss it too drastically
alpha predator returning is neat, too
rs being a talent at all instead of a choice node with mb or just baselined is an odd decision, especially with KC being the starter node (melee spec doesn’t get a melee ability until 13 minimum lol)
wfi being changed takes away a fun factor, and id rather see the new one reset flanking strike and have fs work with pack leader
overall im huffing a decent bit of hopium to see the next iteration, this is a pretty decent start but some work needs done

7

Not sure how I feel, obv number/tuning pass will have to happen at some point. Don’t feel like spamming heroics more rn, but I’m really disliking the amount of damage bomb and lunar storm is doing. This is single target - it feels more worth going for anything to reduce bomb cd than MBing to 5 stacks. Losing pheremone/poison bomb makes it a bit more boring tbh.

https://imgur.com/a/6BO9yYn

Otherwise I like the design of hunter tree, and survival tree outside of current tuning. It’s beta but :shrug:

8

you also aren’t supposed to have shrapnel bomb, I’m guessing you didn’t make a new character for the new build?

1 Like
9

Aye. You’re not even supposed to have that (just baseline WFB instead) and to be happy for the loss? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

1 Like
10

ye, but damage appears to line up with other hunters with wfb, the only thing it adds ig is internal bleeding

ye, kinda lazy to redo it though

11

I don’t think WFI from DF on was really anything to think about. I genuinely only liked it for the phero bomb windows and for the fact that it helped with WFB not ingniting.

I really like the new WFI and since WFB ignites I am happy for the loss.

ESPECIALLY because every time there was any borrowed power (read: tier set bonuses) that interacted with wildfire bomb it was a coin clip if it would properly interact with all direct hits / DoTs of WFI

2 Likes
12

Shrapnel was tuned only around mass AoE (56.7% AP uncapped AoE at 3 stacks), but Volatile even at lesser mob counts AoE with Hydra’s was a pretty solid portion of damage, quite rewarding to prep. And Pheromone was fun and decently integral.

Cool. I actually got full value out of each, so I will be missing them.

13

So like WFI is basically baked into the kit now, at least the only part that really mattered for this ability’s existence which is green bomb. Having Alpha Predator means you reallllllyy no longer need Pheromone bomb at all since it’s main use was to save it when you were about to end a MB streak and stack 3 Tip into another MB window. Shrapnel bomb is literally w/e and you wouldn’t even always play around the 3 stack bleed anyway depend on where your focus was at, or if you were going to cap on bomb’s while pooling. I mean I get it’s cool to have funny bomb’s but realistically with how much you are going to be throwing them with grenade juggler you would never play around the WFI anyway and instead treating it as a fire mage ignite DoT was prob the best route blizzard could have gone with.

1 Like
14

It’s not. You’re looking at a bug. Characters not remade will each keep the WFI variant they logged out with. Without the bug, WFI is gone. Completely. No Volatile. No Pheromone. No Shrapnel.

15

Can you guys just make a Tinker class already so we can do away with all the explosives nonsense? A more primitive Hunter fighting in melee range next to an animal companion is an awesome concept that is absolutely ruined the more you cram these explosions into the spec. Half the damn tree is filled with perfect examples of how to ensure that I and my pet would NOT survive.

Birds of Prey was probably the best part about DF Survival. Why would you remove this???

Why are we losing ranged Serpent Sting when we still have Kill Shot, random Arcane Shots, and Explosive Shot???

Why can we apply Serpent Sting with Raptor Strike but not Butchery??? We’re using the same weapon for both attacks, yes?

Very disappointing.

4 Likes
16

Because then there would be no gameplay to it, just as how Blood and Thunder effectively killed any gameplay around/from Rend? The whole point of a DoT is to change targets, engaging with their remaining time-til-death and the order by which those DoTs were applied.

It would make decent sense for other single-target attacks to apply it, but not an AoE, and certainly not one that deals split damage after 5 rather than having a hard target cap.

17

That’s why we had Latent Poison. Guess what we don’t have anymore?

18

Which is my point.

Latent Poison meant you used a single-target attack roughly once per Serpent Sting. Guess what else makes you use a single-target attack roughly once per Serpent Sting?

Take both out and you make it thoughtless.

19

Serpent Sting is a DoT. DoTs are a ramp mechanic. When you exacerbate the ramp by trying to force more GCDs into the application process you’re only asking to be sidelined for specs like Havoc DH who will murder the pack of mobs with Eye Beam before you’ve finished getting Serpent Sting on all the mobs.

20

I really wish there was a option to not use WfB, and have a rotation based on poising and bleeding your enemy. Having Explosives feels too modern and I would like a more savage take on the Hunter fantasy.

3 Likes