My "Social" experience leveling a new toon thanks to no RDF

But the moment you remove the incentive to have social interactions, what’s the point in doing group content? The premise of not having RDF is about the social aspect.

“We will have a train with more people on it.” Sure, more people will use it, but what are the incentives to have social interactions?

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Well, yes. Dungeons are more fun than questing.

Why would people choose to do dungeons that give less xp than questing ?

Dungeons are far more enjoyable content that is done with others, they break up the boredom of kill x monster.

Which private wotlk servers do not have RDF ?

That is the opposite, I loved what Wrath originally was and I am advocating for it.


Fun is a subjective word, and using your logic, why aren’t you questing with other people? I’ve been able to complete group quests because they are some people out in the open world questing. So RDF would indeed hurt my questing experience somehow.

Well, as it was… half of original Wrath didn’t have RDF. So technically you are advocating for half of it.

Edit: “the boredom of kill x monster.” So you rather mindlessly and mechanically kill more monsters. Gotcha.

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Subjective opinion is subjective. Funny as i always saw the two tied together as inloved doing both, but with rdf its increasingly became dungeon after dungeon.

The bonus xp at the end of a dungeon.

You say that as you are literally killing X mobs in a dungeon.

None that i know of, but they’re single server based and most often mid to low pop depending on the time of day and with increased xp we tend to out level dungeons quickly so they aren’t as relevant.

Arguably, Blizzard would do much better off increasing the quest XP and mob xp and just let us habe at endgame then worrying about rdf or not. No one cares about the old world as much so might as well let us breeze through it as quickly as possible.

You say that while you’re not.

The exact same as now. Social interactions are miniscule to non existent currently in 5 man heroics. RDF will not increase or decrease social interaction.

Example = Hogger :
Some classes easily solo Hogger and they usually do just that (stealing the tags from nearby groups if possible).

Some classes can’t solo or find it very difficult to do, so they group. These classes ask for and offer help to others, but I doubt very few life long friendships have been made at Hogger. How many of these groups continue on to Westfall and make stew together ?

Needing to group forces grouping, but still doesn’t force meaningful social interactions.

Adding difficulty to content increases the chance for social interaction (usually negative). Grouping does not mean there will be social interaction positive or negative, even in difficult content.

Wrath dungeons are to easy and were always to easy. There is no reason to speak in groups, outside of hello and goodbye. This is exactly what we learned with Hogger.

People are not grouping to make friends, they are grouping to defeat x obstacle and obtain y.

There is merit to arguing for server only RDF, outside of this I see no valid or intelligent argument against RDF. Especially the social interaction argument, it is the worst argument to make against RDF.

No, I would rather group with people and use my characters tool kit to defeat group content, this is far more enjoyable and productive as knowing how to play in group (and play your character) is the entire focus of wow end game. I usually enjoy a lot of interaction with players in leveling dungeons. Questing much more often puts me in competition with other players (in a game world that isnt dead that is).

I disagree, there would be far more people leveling now if RDF existed. Most people do not just spam dungeons, they quest while in queue. There would be far more people in the old world and outlands if RDF existed. More people in world = More chance for you to group for your more difficult quests like Ring of Blood.


We sure don’t!

The FACT that there are roughly double the numbers of unique player-characters in raid logs in Wrath Classic than there were during WoW Classic shows that the game as it currently is is popular, and thriving.

On top of this, we have a blue post from prior to the launch of Wrath clearly stating that they wanted to settle the topic:

Not only is RDF unneeded, the game is doing quite well without it. Indeed, we saw a decline in population during the original iteration not long after the first expansion that launched with RDF was released.

Certainly many of us can agree that leveling is an arduous journey! However, I suspect that if that rite of passage is diminished with so-called “QoL” features that trivialize it, as well as the social aspects, such that the Classic leveling and day-to-day play experience and community becomes as hollow as Retail, the appeal of Classic will also fade.

As it is, the devs have made some decisions that have led to the ongoing interest and participation in Classic from the Classic community.


Great but rdf tipped the scales whereas lfg balances the scales back out.

The illusion of choice as players abused rdf by overwhrlmingly sitting in capital waiting for their dungeon queues to pop.

I suppose some people did. You admitted you became addicted to rdf and dungeon spammed to the point that you got so burned out you had to quit. I didn’t know anyone who did that. I and all my friends used the rdf while questing or farming. So there was a very real choice that people could make. The game shouldn’t be designed to take care of people with an addictive personality disorder like you had.


Blizzard did.

According to Dr. Rachel Kowert:

Social interactions are important because they constitute the social experience, construct or capital, however you want to call it. Even the negative social interactions are valuable. There’s this misconception that every social interaction must be meaningful.

That example proves the value of interacting with others in the open world, but extrapolates the assumption of an expected outcome in an attempt to invalidate a premise. I’ve never said that every interaction must result in a friendship, but I do support the idea that every social interaction is valuable, even waving at others is valuable.

And that’s one of the biggest issues with the system; some people have given up intrinsic values for extrinsic ones, and studies have shown that this kills motivation. That’s probably why people don’t enjoy questing anymore: they’ve lost the value in doing that activity just for the sake of a reward.

This is saying that social sciences are invalid. Studies have shown (and recent ones by the way) that socializing online has yielded positive outcomes. Sure, people are entitled to miss out those outcomes, to each their own, but, why should you deprive others from those outcomes?

That’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, there are people that don’t share this opinion. This is why RDF is so divisive.

And where’s your evidence to prove this claim? Some have claimed that anyone could stay in a city waiting for a queue to pop up while they are watching videos or doing something outside WoW. We don’t currently possess the data to check how many people have stayed in cities or questing. Even though people don’t want to admit it, Blizzard do have the meanings to monitor these instances.

Brian Birmingham have said that they are happy with how people are forming groups. They have the data, we don’t.

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Then produce the blizzard data that shows what percent of the players didn’t quest or farm while leveling and just dungeon spammed and the percent that did quest or farm while mixing in dungeons. I don’t know that percentage and neither do you. But the fact remains that many people didn’t just spam dungeons so there was a very real choice that players made.


What a foolish demand to make. The fact thst Blizzard changed from a primitive automated system to a newer, sexier lfg system is proof of there data.

[quote=“Axxo-skyfury, post:76, topic:1412815, full:true”]

This is delusional. You are smoking copium so hard that you have become completely out of touch with whats really going on. I bet you arnt even leveling alts right now. Having to wait 6-24 hours to find a dungeon is not a functioning system and not a fun experience for anyone. This is an mmo. Noone wants to play a solo player game of fetch quests and kill x monsters for 2 months straight(thats about how long it takes to lvl now). Most new players are quitting and most vets are refusing to even make alts because of how horrible the experience is. I cant even get my friends to play the game because they see how bad the experience is for me and refuse to play without RDF. Dungeons are 90% of the games experience and its being taken away from us because classic andys think we should all suffer as a badge of honor. Theres nothing special about suffering through solo questing and grinding for months on end. Its just a bad playing experience. Even northrend normal dungeons are drying up now, which means you cant even finish the quest zone. If rdf isnt put in soon for 1-79, this game will die. People are already raidlogging because making an alt is just too painful


Making even more assumptions i see.

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Meanwhile, the vast majority of players are enjoying the game rather than complaining on the forums…

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I’ve noticed a pattern: take an opinion, establish it as a fact, exaggerate one observation, generalize it, try to use logic to no avail, resort to discrediting or insulting others. In that order, every single time.

Hey, on the upside, adding RDF would allow all the ret crybabies to reroll warlock just to be overpowered, but get rekt anyways cuz they cant l2p.

Funny, I’ve seen anti-rdf people say “Questing is meta, questing is faster that’s why nobody does dungeons”

But now it’s suddenly the path of least resistence? Which is it?


I am advocating for more socialization not less. RDF = More CHANCES for socialization to occur, not less.

I played og Wrath, the open world was never EVER this dead when RDF existed, even on a server much larger than anything og wrath had. Plain old common sense would suggest more players leveling = a more active world.

I am not a fan of the negative interactions, but social interactions like drive by buffing that happens in the open world (when it has players in it) are positive.


For those that don’t get what my pointy eared friend is saying, is that this little debate of “rdf” is held by a yiny fraction of people on the forums and when we look at server populations as a whole, theres no where near enough traffic on the topic for Blizzard to waste any further time changing things. I feel he makes a rather great point. :wink: