This is one thing I’d like to see changed that apparently never will. When I hit max level, I want to be max level. I want a new, fun ability and I want to start working on rep and earning my gear through dungeons and raids.
I don’t want to be stuck with having to level a second time through these throwaway power progression systems. Hitting max level should be a sense of excitement. It should make me feel like I have accomplished something. When I have to then worry about being so weak and worthless until I can get more levels to gain power after I already hit max level… that’s where I get tired. To me, that’s not fun.
Why is it so wrong to find other ways to keep us engaged, instead of making us level up again? Does anyone else feel the same way about these AP systems?
I feel the same way about all these “gimmicks” in general. There have been too many systems. I feel like they feel that if they don’t give us a new system every xpac, people will leave.
And for all I know, that’s what their market research has shown. Go figure.
But for me, I would like to hit max level and start focusing pieces of gear from different places, like the old days. Perhaps one piece of gear that increases in power over time; that would be OK.
But the “here’s a gear system, you need to level it up, and you need to find things to plug into it, and you need to level those up, and in the same xpac here’s another piece you level up, and you need to do these mini-dungeons to level that up, and you need to do research so that the mini-dungeon will be doable, and you need to do WQ-type stuff and mini-mini-dungeons to be able to enter the mini-dungeon, and also here is gear that has a new stat on it, and you want some of that stat but not too much, if you get too much of the stat, then here’s new PVE mechanics to avoid…” is overkill.
IMO.
I mean, I am embellishing, but in a nutshell… the above is a bit much for my tastes.
I prefer some aspects of current system where you catch up mechanics let alts do at least some end game content without taking forever to level. BFA leveling to 120 from 110 was fairly fast and I don’t mind war campaign quests and things like that after hitting max. I agree that essences and AP are like a second grind and not fun. I think there should be more account wide credit for things done. Like how we can skip a couple of scenarios in cloak quests, but I wish it was more that we can skip if we choose to. There may be other things we want to do on an alt that we haven’t focussed on yet.
I feel like if they just created some different systems and even made a couple few things account wide, we wouldn’t have to have catch up systems. It would feel much smoother that way, imo.
The current target demographic seems to be people who would unsub if they got their bis gear, so they need to be loaded up with busywork to delay that as long as possible.
This expansion and the last there wasn’t even any point to making us gain actual levels because we didn’t gain anything between the previous level cap and the new one. No new abilities, no new talent tier, nothing. It was just there to render our old gear obsolete and create a time barrier to jumping from the previous expansion’s endgame to the new one.
They could have accomplished the exact same thing by ilevel crunching the previous expansion’s loot.
What’s scary is they decided to add a second layer of advanced leveling with the cloak/corruption mechanics in this last patch. We hope it’s the last hurrah and Anima will be different but know in our hearts it’s AP 3.0
You’re not max level. Leveling is inconsequential in WoW. The whole point of Azerite/gearing is to provide an actual progression system once you’ve finished the leveling tutorial.
The point being made is that these progression paths aren’t engaging. They’re either grindy busywork (AP), convoluted power systems that obscure whether a new item is actually better or not (Azerite), or both (Corruption).
Not really sure how AP is more grindy than leveling is currently. At least with AP there are WQ, Islands, corrupted zone questlines, pvp rewards, etc. - many avenues to get leveled. With leveling you can grind zones or dungeons.
Azerite essences are just extra talents. I don’t really see how they are problematic either - once you know your class you just pick the right talents for pvp/m+/raid in town and then go do your stuff.
I would say that corruption is the weakest system, since some of the corrupted gear is very OP for being an RNG system. But overall, the affixes are at least an interesting spin on balancing bad vs. good which is pretty refreshing.
Leveling is not a “tutorial”. It is just a long, boring grind from which all meaning and interest have been excised by a development team that wants to make sure nobody has any reason to want to hang out in old content.
There is no learning component to killing tens of thousands of identical trash packs to fill a very long bar.
It’s kinda simple that’s because they no longer design the game for players but for metrics. They don’t care about your feelings as long as you’re stuck playing. And they know they can abuse their playerbase because it’s one that will stick throught most things.
We would have to see a lot of changes in leadership to see the game going in another direction. Next expansion, we’re going to have anima power (ap yes for short). Like it or not, it’s gonna be there.
Oh, I wasn’t talking about you being 102. What I ma saying is that 120 isn’t max level. Getting to 120 is the end of the “tutorial”. The difference between leveling and gearing/AP is really just aesthetic. They are both progression systems and you aren’t really max level until you’ve peaked in all of these systems.
I enjoy leveling in most expansions, because the storylines were engaging. I found nothing interesting in BfA zones on either side. So I had a difficult time leveling. I haven’t even finished two zones Horde side because I just can’t find interest. Even with the achiev dangling there with those mounts for a reward, I can’t go back and do them. I got my Vulpera and that’s been it.
Leveling is part of an RPG to me and once I hit max level, I want to feel I accomplished that and move on to gearing and max level storyline zones to get new, fun things. I don’t want to have to level again just to get more power. That grind isn’t fun to me.
Progression systems are fine as long as their impact is restricted to min/maxing and their effects are account-wide.
I actually really like the D3 paragon system. You get slightly more powerful stat-wise the longer you play at max level, but it doesn’t lock critical abilities or builds behind being “Rank X.” Also, any alt you roll, even if they’re starting at level 1, benefits from those bonus stats your main earned.
The closest thing WoW had was the Concordance of the Legionfall buff. I didn’t have much of an issue with that.
I am really against any kind of account wide progression system. Alts should have to earn that power increase, not have it handed to them because someone else did the work. That said, I wouldn’t mind seeing most of these system retired to never return again. I wouldn’t mind a return to the old gearing method but not to the old tier class sets. I hated that the armor made you feel forced to build to support it. Even with all it’s faults, AZ at least allowed you to build the armor around the playstyle you wanted to us.
Oh, I wasn’t talking about you being 102. What I am saying is that 120 isn’t max level. Getting to 120 is the end of the “tutorial”. The difference between leveling and gearing/AP is really just aesthetic. They are both progression systems and you aren’t really max level until you’ve peaked in all of these systems.
I didn’t say it was undoable, I said it was uninteresting. It’s just a number that passively goes up with everything else you’re doing. It’s the closest WoW has ever come to literally just raising your stats the longer you’re logged in.
I was referring to Azerite traits on armor, not essences. But essences have a significant difference from talents in that they have to be specifically sought out through various grinds. Rep grinds, reward grinds, drop grinds., etc. To say nothing of having to PvP for BiS PvE essences, which has and will never be a good idea anytime Blizzard tries to force PvEers to PvP.
They are not. They just create a necessity for grinding (cloak ilevel) on top of RNG.
That’s basically leveling. I think you are complaining about the wrong thing. What you dislike is the gameplay options available. The system is just there so you are working towards something.
If island expeditions/WQ were super fun I don’t think you’d be complaining about AP.
It sounds like you don’t like MMOs. This is pretty much the bread and butter of the genre - you put in time and that equates to equipping better gear you get from RNG. This has been true since Vanilla.
I can understand not liking the particulars of the system but grinding/RNG is what you’re signing up for when playing the game.
