Outlaw rogue was perhaps my favourite spec to play back in Legion and it’s no longer the case, mostly due to a couple tweaks to the class.
First off, Shadow Dance was made available to all specs, and since there are so many talents in every spec tree that benefit from stealth, it’s pretty much become a requirement. I really don’t like using it outside of subtlety, yet it’s become meta in every single build for all 3 specs.
Blade Flurry was changed to deal damage on use. This seemingly insignificant change means that it provides decent single-target damage at a very low energy cost and must now be used all the time regardless of the situation: No more decision making. There are several talents that further increase its single-target benefit. Not only do I dislike having another buff cooldown in addition to Roll the Bones, but here’s a very silly complaint of mine:
Sinister Strike’s additional attack proc was designed back in Legion to have a different animation depending on whether Blade Flurry was active or not. When it’s “on”, Sinister Strike has a “cleave” animation. When it’s “off”, Sinister Strike has more of a cool “fencing duel” animation. Due to Blade Flurry being active 100% of the time in combat, I never get to see this animation which, believe it or not, contributed quite a lot to my enjoyment of the spec.
Slice and Dice was originally made to be a simpler replacement for Roll the Bones, which meant it made sense to have Grand Melee increase attack speed. Now we have both abilities which means there is overlap between their effects, and Grand Melee has been redesigned (twice to my knowledge) with a limitted degree of success in terms of appeal. Its previous iteration increased the duration of Slice and Dice, which I didn’t dislike. Its current state increases the damage of Blade Flurry, which synergises rather effectively with my newfound disdain for this ability.
TL;DR, here are changes that would make the class more enjoyable to play for me personally:
Make Shadow Dance an option rather than mandatory.
Entirely remove any single-target benefit for Blade Flurry.
Make Slice and Dice an optional choice (at the start of the class tree, taken by default for the Assassination spec?) and revert Grand Melee to its original state of providing attack speed.
This would effectively kill the upperhanded upper hand or whatever that crap is called. I don’t like this ability because it removed even more emphasis of any bursting potential, and made it so that you’re practically always on the brink of energy starvation as it’s clearly tuned around this. It would bring us back to a state where we’d have even less energy, make the tight crackshot windows feel bad, and generally just make it unfun to play.
I honestly don’t like the ST build for outlaw because it’s basically your M+ build without Blade Flurry talents, meaning you’re refreshing it more often and it won’t even generate CP when you do so. It takes some of the momentum out of the gameplay and its only upside is that you have Blade Rush as emergency energy generator (which still feels bad to press though).
I’m struggling with the opposite problem, I had to remove a few energy generation talents which were effectively useless because I was overcapping on so much energy.
I don’t really see how the Underhanded Upper Hand changes the rotation in any way, shape or form besides not having to press Slice and Dice as often? Feels more like a gimmick than anything else.
Agreed. It’s not even like specing out of every Blade Flurry talent makes it so that you don’t have to use it in single target, you still have to because it’s a more than decent amount of damage at a very low energy cost. Honnestly I’m wondering if this ability shouldn’t be reworked entirely. A toggle maybe, with a downside for using it in single-target? It already feels like a combat stance anyway, might as well go all-in on it.
This has to either be a troll post or just a massive skill issue in general…
The entire spec right now is tuned around upper hand and having a 90%+ uptime on Adrenaline Rush because if you lose AR at all you literally do not get to play the game at all because of how badly our energy regen has been nerfed.
All right, I looked into it and you are correct. But that enphasizes my point: More Shadow Dance rellyant talents as a mandatory part of any meta build in a spec where I don’t want to have anything to do with stealth mechanics mid-fight. Didn’t use to be like this.
What about this fix. We rename the shadow dance talent in the class tree into something that’s spec specific. Because the way I see it, alot of people are mental booming and can’t get over the fact they have to use a “subtlety” skill on non-subtlety specs.
This isnt even a complaint about “stealth mechanics” its you wanting the spec dumbed down like everybody else because they cant be bothered to press a button every minute because in pve it literally just lets you get BTE resets and you’re not doing content where you’re going to press cheapshot anyways.
The entire complaint of this thread is completely handled by the upper hand talent. If you dont want to learn one of the few specs left that actually has a skill ceiling theres 30+ other specs with half the apm and a 3 button rotation.
I don’t like an optional cooldown in the talent tree to actually be mandatory.
No, because the complaint isn’t that I can’t play the class, it’s that the only optimal way to play it isn’t fun to me, when it used to be when it was redesigned in Legion. There should be options, you shouldn’t be forced into one specific playstyle if you want to play group content. This is the entire point of the talent tree.
Take five different one-minute cooldowns if you like, I prefer having a gameplay that flows with itself without relying on cooldowns and all I’m asking is for the option to do so viably, like I used to.
Are we playing the same game? Even with SnD+AR active I’m often at very low energy. The moment AR drops off and I’m out of the regenerated energy it gives it just stays very low.
In ST you barely have to press SnD because you have BF up. You frequently have BF up because you have AR. If you were to drop this talent and not use BF you’d be constantly refreshing SnD. Refreshing SnD and BF costs energy and a GCD, while refreshing AR does not cost GCD at all.
Mythic+ and probably delves next expac. If we assume delves obey a similar progression system to mythic dungeons, following a meta build might be the only way to get the rewards and achievements. Regardless, Blade Flurry isn’t even a choice, it’s by default into the spec.
I really don’t know where you’re draining it. Even by filling up every single GCD for several minutes, I fail to run out of energy. I’m not even trying to make a point there, I’m genuinely trying to understand what I’m missing about this
you do not need to play meta builds to time 20s or get ksh. You can 100% play greenskin and probably kir without using shadowdance. Truth is if you dont know how to play crackshot/HO properly you will most likely do more damage with the conventional outlaw build anyways.
Just playing the normal rotation with the M+ build. Raid build is less of a problem because of Blade Rush, but honestly that talent shouldn’t be necessary.
Unfortunately, this version of law really is about dance/vanish and UHUH or bust. The highest simming non crackshot/UHUH build is 25% ish behind the top builds. And there is a myriad of non HO or KiR crackshot builds between the top build and it. Non crackshot builds really are in a place where I would call it an unviable way to play outlaw now a days.
Crackshot should be a nod choice between crackshot and Dreadblades.
And there :
You have the possibility to have a build relying on quick successions of dispatchs which bring 100% stability to the spec!
Less RnG…
More apm!
Actually RnG is again based on the RtB buffs…but its much better now with our Tier!
Damages of the spec Could also be adjusted with dreadblades either reducing or increasing finishers dmgs to bring that talent option in line with other choices of talents that could possibly be better or worst.
The idea is the following :
Vigor - ER - Deeper stratagem on rogue tree
Dreadblades - KiR + Greenskin on Outlaw tree.
And there, you have what outlaw always been : Pure APM that requires wits on how to build your combo and do finishers with charge cp’s!
Its the spec I played in season 2 and it was AWESOME!
I am still in pain loosing this ability which imo was the MOST THEMED PIRATE IDENTITY to our spec!!! Blizz failed Outlaw themed spec giving it subtlety skills. Its excessively wrong.
Hopefully they bring back Dreadblades in season 4.
**Could have lost Killing spree…nobody uses it…its probly a pvp talent, since i dont pvp.