My enjoyment of Sword and Board Ret

Classes Paladin
1

Good Afternoon everyone,

I have been moving around constantly trying to find a class that really felt engaging and interesting and something I really want to devote my time to this expansion.

Originally it was Prot paladin and I really enjoyed my time with it, but it was lacking in numerous departments. I bounced around between other classes hoping to feel that certain excitement to play.

I have to honestly say I believe I have found that class again, Ret has always held a place in my heart (was the first class/spec I played back in BC all the way up to Mist) Though there is an aesthetic I wish it still had. Sword and Board.

I am currently playing Sword and Board Ret and my god it looks and feels so good to play. It’s definitely not going to be top tier meta but it has really brought back the fun for me. A single issue I have is the holy power build up, its slow but its still decent enough for me to have a fighting chance in combat. All I would ask is the possibility of taking the Two-Hand Weapon requirement off from Blade of Justice and its perfect.

My current set up are as follows:

Execution Sentence: I chose this talent to have a medium HP cost Heavy hitter, and it empowers my JV and Judgement.

Fires of Justice: Since I don’t currently have Blade of Justice and the execute talent really plays better with Two-Handed Ret I wanted something that would generate faster HP and lower the HP required for JV

Wake of Ashes: Since I only have Judgment and Crusader Strike to build HP this talent was best for my burst moments to be able to take an enemy down as fast as possible.

Unbreakable Spirit/Eye for an Eye: Survivability isn’t as good for Sword and Board Ret due to its dependency on JV and Flash of Light (Cannot access WoG or the FoL one if I chose JV

Justicar’s Vengeance: This is what keeps me alive and dealing respectable damage. Templar’s Verdict works perfect for Two-Handed Ret, but JV works really well for Sword and Board Ret.

Divine Purpose: Since I am heavily limited on what damage I can output and the abilities I can use, Divine Purpose gives me an extra attack I otherwise wouldn’t have had.

PvP Talents are:

Law and Order: while I cant do anything with the BoJ portion of the talent, the slow gets dispelled often enough to make it worth it.

Lawbringer: To keep my judgments hitting hard.

Divine Punisher: to have an extra 3 HP every 11-22 seconds.

I am currently focusing on Mastery/Versatility to keep damage output and damage input comfortable.

Indomitable Justice is really helping with furthering my damage output.

I am very happy with the spec as it is currently, though I know it would be even better if I was able to utilize Blade of Justice, not entirely for damage but the HP generation for more JV strikes and slows on my enemies.

I understand that most would say why even bother with it?
My only response to that is because it’s something I really find fun about the game at this moment. I have also always wanted a DPS Sword/Board character, and right now Ret paladin is letting me have that.

Give it a try sometimes, It’s a challenge for sure.

Update:
So i’m getting used to timing my abilities a bit more with this build, and I am noticing a few opportunities to max out my damage.

I used to attempt to use ES (execution Sentence) to empower my JV (Justicar’s Vengeance ) while this is possible with WoA (Wake of Ashes) for the heaviest burst, during a standard fight youre going to want to use ES to empower Judgment hits, and Judgment to empower ES. Depending on what is available at the time judgement can act to empower ES or JV. I will tend to lean on a JV empowerment for the sake of healing and damage especially if I have a stun available.

I will also use WoA before a stun to allow my JV to get off before a player can respond with a trinket.

6 Likes
2

Interesting idea. How much block do you get?

3

I gain 10% block, and whenever I do block its a 45% damage reduction
I also tend to parry attacks.

They recently allowed for both melee and projectiles to have a block chance when a shield is equipped.

By no means am i invincible but it does help.

1 Like
4

Thank you for sharing this! This paladin was my ‘main’ from when I first subbed at the end of BC through WotLK (when I unsubbed for a few years due to children etc) and really enjoyed playing Ret, but I’d like to switch to Prot as I take him to 120 - this looks like a fun spec to play. Do you have a favorite rotation?

5

For prot or for S/B Ret?
I have it for both!

For reference: JV=Justicar’s Vengeance | CS= Crusader Strike | ES= Execution Sentence| WoA= Wake of Ashes | DP = Divine Purpose |SoV Shield of Vengeance

My current opener is judgement>CSx2>ES>WoA>JV

I cycle through this as often as possible, there is a chance where Divine Purpose will proc and I can deal another JV. Since ES has a 30 second cooldown, im usually stuck working toward JV, If we had access to Blade of Justice this entire rotation would be a lot smoother.

I will always favor a JV over an ES for a free proc especially during pvp, since its easier to build for ES than JV currently.

If the target is stunned, you can get some good healing returns if you use JV>WoK>JV >(DP proc) JV

I often try and set up whenever possible, double JV, if I can do that during burst, even better. It requires some timing but very rewarding.

I also tend to also use SoV offensively, to line up a burst when there is no healer on the enemy.

In the event you are talking about prot, in PvE I use:

Avengers Shield>consecration>Hammer/Shield of the Righteous> Judgements drop CD on Shield of Righteous>

Cycle as they proc, consecration is your main weave in spell, Avengers shield as it procs, If you keep your group close, you should be procing constantly and never have much of a downtime.

For PvP: your talent choices make a big difference in your ability to hold down a target or be completely mobile.

Rotation wise, you always want to keep consecration up wherever you go since (if talented) it can clear slows from you and your group) it can also provide damage mitigation. Judgement>Avengers Shield> Judgement>Hammer of Righteous to gain Avengers proc which also grant judgement (if talented) and cycle through them as often as possible. You have a bit of a heal to keep yourself alive.

Prot pvp is not as fun as it used to be due to the nerf to their self healing, their mana regen, and now this bug fix to their haste and heal ability.

but for PvE its loads of fun.

1 Like
6

Thank you so much - I had meant for Prot but the Ret info helps a ton as I’m a bit (ok a lot) rusty. I suck at PVP, and mostly just have time to enjoy PVE leveling and doing older content that I’ve missed, but if I ever get brave enough for trying it out that really helps!

7

Absolutely! I haven’t enjoyed ret this much in ages, I have always wanted a Sword/Board Damage dealer and this feel very comfortable, the only thing I would like is to have Blade of Justice, the 2 Holy power deficiency without it is noticeable, but still comfortable enough to enjoy

1 Like
9

Look man I’m all for personal enjoyment, but I hope you’re not planning on going far with this.

This isn’t optimal at all. Not only can’t you use BoJ but you’re forcing your self to use JV as your main dump.

You’re cutting so much DPS from yourself on purpose that it’s scary.

Best thing I can tell you is to hope Glad wars come back.

7 Likes
10

Sword and Board Ret does not exist. I hope you are not influencing players back for the free weekend to gimp themselves by making them think it does.You are just playing Ret with the wrong weapon equipped. If you are fine with the lack of dps that’s on you,but please stop making up a name for a spec that does not exist.

7 Likes
11

I’m a big fan of this build also, I was just curious what Azerite Traits you use? I’m a bit perplexed as to what would be good to use.

1 Like
12

I appreciate the response and concern Varx, and while I understand this set up is not optimal, I do state in my post that there is a lot that I lose, but it does well for what I want it for. I tell anyone who asks that this is absolutely not the brightest thing to do, because of the severe damage/utility loss from BoJ, Temp, Divine Storm and the loss of the entire healing row. But I also tell them it’s not as bad as even I first anticipated, and I am extremely comfortable with its performance in pvp so far, for pve it would be wonderful to at least have BoJ and Divine Storm to aid in JV build up, but i’m pretty ok with what I have right now and looking to make it work.

Glad wars wouldn’t satisfy this feeling I have unless it came with some respectable survivability.

@Dalles Thank you for the reply and I also understand your concern. I do not plan to influence people to switch to this unless they have had the same issue I am having. As stated before by no means is this optimal, it is a challenge to play like this but extremely satisfying to pvp with. In PvE there are struggles due to the lack of Divine Punisher, BoJ, Divine Storm etc.

To insinuate that I am attempting to influence players back for the free weekend is pretty insulting and I really do not appreciate that, but this is your view and I can respect it. Let me clear the air on that and say no, my intention is not to do so. I have found a version of a spec I admired that has really brought new life into the enjoyment for me and I wanted to share that. I have every other class at 120 and nothing is sticking, but this is, it is fun for me and I have stated it as such.

@MbThank you for your response! i find it very fun to play this way.
My azerite traits currently are as follows

x3 Indominable Justice
x2 Avenger’s Might
x2 Elemental Whirl
x1 Tradewinds
x1 Earthlink

Aside from Indomitable and Avengers Might I tend to try and pump as much mastery into my traits as possible so anything that gives you that I would say is favored in my opinion.

My stats are Mastery and Versatility, but I learn more versatility with gems and enchants due to the massive amounts of mastery I can get from traits.

1 Like
13

Innovative build for sure.

Bliss could learn something from this: modify a few things in most any build and it morphs completely.
Lots of people play they game for fun, not to min max in raids or mythic plus.
(I am one of those people also). Been playing for 12 years and have never done raids nor mythic+ and still have plenty to keep me busy.

1 Like
14

Baited /10char

1 Like
15

Why don’t you just run prot with all offensive PvP talents. You could run inquisition and Warrior of Light. You’d probably end up doing more damaged than a gimped ret and you have more survivbility.

4 Likes
16

Idk maybe he enjoys it? If someone is having fun why not let them enjoy it? lol I doubt he’s going to head into a dungeon with this build.

1 Like
17

I just noticed that @.@ changing it right ….now!

@Erindale Thank you for the kind words, and I agree a slight modification could allow the build to play slightly different to many classes.

@Varx All tanks take 40% extra damage in pvp, they also are very slow in terms of damage. Their defenses are great and boy do I wish I had access to Blessing of Spellwarding or hollowed ground, but it feels, looks and acts very different. The damage output of the Sword and Board Ret is much higher than that of a prot. Which is why I shifted from Prot to Sword and Board Ret.

I did a few duels yesterday and while there were some that I was completely outmatched due to not having all my abilities (went up against a Glad Arcane Mage) I didn’t just flop over dead though I wasn’t exactly able to hold onto them either.

and others where all it took was timing and movements and I was able to overcome the battle (a few Rets, Rogue, and Druid)

The spec definitely suffers when it comes to some classes on a one to one basis, but it has a good amount of kill potential in Bgs and group Pvp, also just recently obtained the Maledict Trinket so there is a good chance for even more kill potential?

@Myrllana Absolutely, this build isn’t superior by any means, and I really do enjoy it. I have however taken it into dungeons and I would like to try it in mythic 0 soon to test out what damage it provides, though I am certain it should be nowhere near Two-handed ret. I will absolutely come back with the meters asap!

18

I think you misunderstand. He’s trolling you. :upside_down_face:

1 Like
19

Well to be fair I really did mistype Mb’s name I had it as Md

20

I miss when talent trees had completely different viable options

Not all optimal, but viable

1 Like
21

I was laughing with my friend the other night, with classic coming out there is a solid chance that I could have had exactly what I was looking to have, but then I remembered there would be no blood elves, and it all came crashing down haha.