My best vision for Classic WoW and why

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Hi there-

I want to reduce to writing my favorite version for the pending classic wow. Now I know that Blizz doesn’t show support for all of these, but I’m hoping for constructive arguments on both sides. Further, I want to show Blizz that there really is a diverse player base rooting for classic to be successful despite differences in vision. There is still time for Blizz to consider all opinions and perhaps adjust their philosophy as they see fit!

THINGS I WANT PRESERVED FOR CLASSIC:

  1. The fun skill trees: so important because it really defines the time period and represents pre-pruning that the pvp/arena community rails against.

2- The leveling experience: I don’t advocate keeping this because I want to punish people with a lengthy slog to 60. I like this because it part of the nostalgia I enjoy.

3- The dungeons and raids: again, so nostalgic and fun! Also, a breath of fresh air from current content where cc is almost non-existent. As for the amount of allowable debuffs, I am flexible.

4- Professions: while I have some changes I proffer for Blizz’s consideration below, I love the idea of going back to a place where professions have more utility and are just more fun! For example- engineering for pvp!

5- Battlegrounds: while I hope that Blizz reconsiders and releases them immediately, I support everything about the classic BG versions! I really don’t care about world pvp all that much though. Keep it the same or change it…I will still play on a PvP server and don’t care if there are changes to it or not.

6- Classes themselves: while I am not a diehard no-changer for keeping them exactly the same, I do admit that I liked them back then and can’t make an argument to change them. For example, making more than just warriors viable main tanks… I just don’t care enough about this to carry a banner either way.

7- Spell batching: apart from the fact that I had no idea what this was until you fine people educated me, I can say that I couldn’t care less if it stays or goes.

8- Other things: there are more things about classic that I would love to retain, but the list above are the ones on my mind now. Classic was a really fun time!

THINGS I WOULD LIKE ADDED TO CLASSIC TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE FUN:
1- Arenas: my biggest wish on my wishlist to Blizz. I love arenas/pvp. While I raided off and on through expansions, I’ve always enjoyed arenas/pvp. One of the highlights of my entire wow experience is getting my first gladiator title in 2009 or so. While I know arenas were introduced in TBC, boy oh boy would it be fun to have them at level 60!!! 2s, 3s and 5s with the TBC arena model (teams mattered) implemented.

2- Dungeon finder: In my opinion, this may be one of Blizzard’s finest ideas. I’ve met so many great and fun people using this tool. It made getting a group a snap which is a fantastic benefit. Even if it is just server wide, I would like Blizz to reconsider this one.

3- Flying mounts- quality of life issue that I support at level 60. I know they didn’t exist in classic. But in my best vision for classic Blizz will reconsider. I do not think it kills world pvp at level 60.

4- Professions- as stated above, I am super excited to go back to a time when they had more utility and were more fun. That being said, I wouldn’t mind at all if Blizz reconsidered adding JC and Inscription. Why? Because early JC and inscription allowed us to really customize our toon and gameplay. It was a blast! However, I am not holding my breath for this one. I understand that new gear with sockets would be needed among other things. A pipe dream? Yeah probably, but Blizz- these 2 were super fun!!

There are other items to put under each topic but my post is getting long…I’ll save it for another day. Cheers mates!

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I think you’ve had too much whiskey. You should go sleep it off.

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Or not enough whiskey

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FANTASTIC POST! Please continue to be constructive OP, and continue to define your position through explanations and examples. Don’t resort to name calling, be patient and respectful to others.

I agree with a lot of your points.

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This game is ‘Classic’ WoW.

Add all of those extra changes and ingredients, it’s no longer Classic.

Example: New Coke vs Old Coke. Let’s learn from history.

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To add on to that analogy, new coke was objectively better than old coke…in blind taste tests. People repeatedly rated new coke as the better beverage, so they went ahead and released it. And we all know how that ended up.

So what we can take away from this is that even though adding sprinkles to vanilla might make it an objectively better game in a vacuum, you can’t go around messing with people’s perception of the past. It won’t be well received no matter how good the change is.

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You just named 3 things that are part of the reason why people are so excited for Classic and hate retail so much, especially dungeon finder.

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  1. The streamlining and elimination of talent trees made the game feel really spoon fed. When examining guild applicants, I would first look at their spec. Poor talent choices were a red flag.

  2. 1-60 was never a slog. I spent the summer of 2000, april to september, grinding from 50-54 in everquest, 16 hours/day. That was a slog. It’s all about perspective. People who think the leveling is too slow really aren’t the target audience.

  3. The debuff limit was a huge pain, but without it, raid dps would get a big jump, especially if identical debuffs are allowed to stack (5 ignites do a lot more damage than 1, 5 viper stings drain a hell of a lot more mana than 1).

  4. Professions were fun, but crafting professions were more or less useless for most people until they started adding a lot of BoP crafted items. It was too expensive to mage gear as you leveled, and at max level it was so easy that there was virtually no market for crafted items.

  5. You can’t have it both ways. Either you support everything about classic BGs, or you want them released immediately. WSG and AV were added in a content patch, then arathi was added later. None of it was at launch.

  6. Bears could tank most content, not raids, but most content. As for pallies… buffing pallies, changing pallies… it’s a minefield, because at that point, paladins weren’t just being balanced against other classes, they had to be balanced against shamans, and the scales were already tilted heavily toward alliance in that instance. (Blessings and judgements vs Totems).

  7. I get the feeling like this is one of those things that I won’t think I’ll notice, until I play and it’s gone. I think spell batching probably kept, and would keep, the game from devolving into “lowest ping wins”.
    7(2). I think this should be an 8!

Things you want added. I’m going to try not to be overly critical here, just remember that what you think would make the game more fun, might ruin it for others.

  1. Arenas. Arenas are going to be a sore point for a lot of people, because when Arenas came, they started trying to balanced WoW as both an MMO, and a squad based combat game (like overwatch). This led to tons of unpopular changes that favored Arena, since Blizz was trying to force Arena as an esport.

  2. Part of classic, for a lot of people, that they miss, and is missing in retail, is a sense of community. Talking to people, making friends, making connections. Group finder wasn’t murder on this (just being able to know who was LFG), but dungeon finder… ugh. Plus, do you really want to trust an algorithm when suddenly it’s not just tank+heals+any3dps for groups?
    3- Classic wow was not built for flying mounts. That’s why classic wow had no flying mounts until cataclysm. Adding flying mounts would require major development work to make WoW look not like a train wreck when flying.

4 - Honestly, at launch ( I don’t know what changes were made post wrath), JC and inscription didn’t really add any variety. Every Prot warrior had the same inscriptions, every member of a class used pretty much the same gems. They helped get people to caps, but that’s about it.

Remember the butterfly effect. Small changes can have big consequences. #1 would necessitate balance changes (Warriors were basically required for arenas back then as they had the only MS). #2 would destroy community, which is what a ton of people are missing. #3 would require remaking the entire world (and even if you don’t care about the world looking crappy from above, there are plenty of places that you just weren’t supposed to be able to get to without going a specific way, by design.) #4 would cause a ton of power creep that would either make content much easier, or require retuning.

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Hi Amangina!

Thank you for a fun informative reply. It is really awesome to engage in dialogue.

  1. I fixed my Numbering problem, thanks!

  2. I concede, per the logic of your argument, that dungeon finder may not be a good idea. Certain classes made some dungeons easier and the finder may not give that comp. Good point.

3- For JC, I am considering how much more it let pvp/arena people tailor to a playstyle they liked best. I still love the idea.

4- Arenas and flying. Still a proponent of adding those. While flying may be a technical problem, I suggest that it would be fun at 60. Flightpaths are there so it is possible to leave the ground and quite frankly that is a blizz issue to figure it out if they reconsider, not mine. Arenas are a big reason why I play and I would still love to see them in classic. Warrior’s MS was powerful yes, but warrior wasn’t a mandated class to get gladiator or even do well.

5- the butterfly effect- I understand what you are saying, but I am not operating from a base position that classic must be legacy or bust.

Again, thanks so much for a great reply!

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Ion at blizzcon: I’m Not even going to address this. Aka that is a HUGE no.

Ion at blizzcon: Dungeon Finder: Of course not.

You aren’t on a very good roll here man.
Unless I mention the fact that NO re-balance is going to be done. Then I think it’s kind of worse than a bad roll.

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Blockquote
7- Spell batching: apart from the fact that I had no idea what this was until you fine people educated me, I can say that I couldn’t care less if it stays or goes.

Educate me please, is the stringing of spells using a macro?

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It was a mechanic that allowed pvp things like two rogues being able to cc each other simultaneously, a priest shadow word death a sheep and other examples. It was based upon some kind of snapshot in time on the server side that allowed spells/abilities to go off simultaneously. At least that’s how I understand it. I could be wrong.

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And to this, I say that while you find it fun, alot of this is a severe change to classic.

Dungeon finder in general is about as anti classic as it can get. Vanilla was all about community and exploration and getting out in the world. Dungeon finder negatively impacts all 3.

You’d be best served asking for vanilla + servers instead of asking for all this yo be added to vanilla.

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People are legitimately asking for flying and dungeon finder now.

What has happened to this forum? Like every post is asking for changes. And this is AFTER Blizzard flat out said they’re not changing 1.12 data. They’re not having transmog. They’re not having all these things people continue to ask for.

This is the problem when Blizzard gives Classic free to Current WoW players. Because they don’t want Classic. They never did. That said, I guess it doesn’t matter so long as the developers don’t try to appease the very players who’s ideals lead to what WoW became, and tread that very same path again. That won’t lead to Classic. That’ll lead to a watered down version of BfA.

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There is probably 6 months or more till release. I will say this again- I would like Blizzard to see the diversity of opinion for their classic server. The argument that I keep hearing is that they ha e already decided this or that. However, there is still time for them to reconsider additional gother fantastic ideas.

I read what you reply. I even changed my mind about dungeon finder in this thread.

But matrim’s continued rebuttle yo anything #nochange “it changes classic therefore no go” doesn’t hold weight. I don’t want 1.12 with no changes. We ha e a chance here to advocate for items for Blizz to consider and I intend to let them know what I like. I’m also willing to enter I to good dialogue like with Amangina in this thread to ferret out the pros and cons.

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where did i say if it changes classic? i said that with all the changes you want your better off with a classic server.
which is true. because with all the changes you want, its not classic anymore. that is true.

if you wanted to discuss - adding some light class balance in the spirit of vanilla (since you know, vanilla did have some balancing).
if you wanted to discuss - a server wide LFG channel, well i’d say thats in the spirit of vanilla, because you still have to interact, form a group, and travel to the dungeon, i would be fine with that.
if you wanted to discuss - pre 1.11 threat or post, have at it.
see the changes i am fine with discussing are those that maintain the spirit of vanilla. which is why i would be in favor of even adding enchanting vellums to the game.

but can you honestly tell me that you can maintain the feel of classic with some of the changes that people are requesting? i cannot.

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Matrim’s posts are dead-on. He’s simply echoing the very sentiments of Classic devs. Your inability to accept what the game is is something you have to work out on your own. You label people as close-minded #nochangers because they relay the facts of what Classic is going to be. I’m not going to participate in a pointless discussion of things that have been confirmed not going to happen. That go against the very principles of Classic. Even your ‘little changes’ (according to you) have lasting impacts. Because let me tell you something…you can’t get a little bit pregnant.

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Ok Mogar, I am not sure how germaine the pregnant analogy is but I admit the zaniness is funny! It is worth a heart. That plus you know who Matrim refers to. GREAT book series. He was my fave character too.

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i’m not unreasonable, all i want is to keep classic classic. unfortunately i see a lot of suggestions that don’t fit that at all. and yes. Matrim is awesome!

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Well Matrim, I think- despite our differences- we are really talking now!

High five!!!

Lan is a close second for sure.

I am advocating for classic plus already. I think the ideas I proffer will, in the long term, be healthier for player population too. The caveat for me is that I will play whatever it is they release because I’m a fan just like you. But from where I sit, let’s get it perfect.

Edit: I need to make a toon named Mandragoran!!!