A small question about SCK with MW for healing. The talent Awakened Jadefire states:
‘your Spinning Crane Kick heals 3 nearby allies for 110% of the damage done’
So does that mean up to 330% healing in total (3x110%)? Or is the 110% split across up to 3 allies?
I’m not sure on the math particulars but based on the tuning its not worth even pressing currently.
Well unless I’m wrong (which is certainly possible) I could see it being situationally useful at 330% healing. At 110% healing it would definitely be useless under all circumstances.
I think it is this one.
You might want to double check with the peak of serenity discord people though.
Won’t let me on without phone confirmation, of which I don’t have atm 
Ah that is awkward.
iirc sck jadefire spin healing isn’t that great right now - but I’m not 100% sure. Sorry friend.
QE Guide has this to say: “The build is already really talent-starved and Ancient Teachings takes 5 points to do less than 10% of your HPS. It just isn’t good enough, even post-buffs. Mistweaver just does not really do a lot of DPS at the moment so Ancient Teachings is suffering hard.”
I appreciate the thoughts, I get that no one runs it. I’d just like to know the WHY and not just copy-pasta a build off the web and call it a day.
I’ve tried playing around with targeting dummies but the values in the combat log I’m getting don’t make any sense to me at all.
It actually is. I’ve been using it all season since before the buffs and it’s actually very powerful when combined with dance of chichi. So when standing in jade or having recently stood in it your spinning crane kick damage heals allies = 110% the damage. With dance of chichi it does 400% damage, costs like no mana, and I think it casts faster.
This is so powerful in cleave that dance of chichi can take the place of any healing cool down on your bar. Without building your stats around making crackling jade lightning do a lot of damage, dance of chichi does about the same damage ime in testing. Empowered lightning also coerces you to drink your tea. Now when do you drink your tea? You want to instant cast enveloping for quick ramp into instant/empowered vivify with zen pulse proc or you want to empower expel harm for a fatter heal and 1m absorb shield. forget anything else the tea does in m+, doesn’t matter, useless. Every situation where you need to do that right now you want the tea right now for that purpose. So drinking tea to proc crackling jade is limiting your options more.
In addition to that blizzard doesn’t think it would be good for you to be able to move AND cast crackling jade. In m+ especially in higher keys you’re either gonna zone in trying to find all the windows to do this or inevitably cancel your cast to cast something else or dodge. Dance of chichi procs around 2 times per pull, minumum, for me. Even before they buffed the proc rate it was still very good. Even before they buffed the damage it was still very good.
I’ve done pulls in high cools without using a chichi cd or revival or sheiluns, because i just danced through it. Ever had a ninja pull happen? Like in arak after first boss? When that happens empowered jade will never save that. When that happens and dance procs, you have options. The amount that dance heals in cleave with 3 or more targets is so big that if you could only do that in large trash pulls, you could and probably fine (well still gotta get kicks and stops and stuff.) Most importantly though you can still move while dancing through a pull.
Both are pretty useless or pretty close to useless in single target but if you wanted to could dance. Most bosses have so much area of denial (lava, puddles, breath, etc.) you only never really get an opportunity to stand still and with nothing to cleave the lightning is not really all that better than your regular rotation imo. I’ve timed up to 13 with dance and I have never bought into the idea it was bad. If anything it was already a sleeper for doing massive nightmare pulls on proc and it just got better.
Sometimes I might even tell a tank to pull more cause I got a dance proc, chichi is up, and I’m ready for it. Ever had a situation where you look at your bars and you’re like “shoot what can I even do?” And there’s nothing? Spinning + Dance can be that button. And it does it very well. When the mw blackout kick healing gets nerfed next season I wouldn’t doubt it if this catches on and gets nerfed so that we are just even deeper in the tier list. Cap and reduce our our aoe/cleave damage->healing through put even tho it’s literally the only thing monk does better than other healers. We don’t have a bres, lust, damage reduction, wrath/wings, cheat death, stealth, etc. All we got is an aoe cleanse, RoP, and faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat dps to healing. Blizzard ig wants to worsen that and the multistrike damage on the teaching stacks (and therefore their healing) and instead make it even more rng based dependent on mastery procs which is like a worse mini crit we are pigeonholed into maintaining for chichi windows.
I appreciate the thoughts but it still doesn’t answer the question.
When the mw blackout kick healing gets nerfed next season
Nerfed? I’m pretty sure it’s getting a small buff.
It is a small buff.
Actually, no, it’s a HUGE buff.
I’m not sure the answer to your question but this is easily testable on the aoe target dummies in the main city.
But as far as I know you don’t spinning crane kick anymore to heal.
I’m not sure the answer to your question but this is easily testable on the aoe target dummies in the main city.
You would think so, but the numbers I’m getting don’t make any sense. Hence why I asked here.
What numbers did you get?
Ok I went back at it, disabled a bunch of talents and stripped a lot of gear, I think I’ve figured it out.
From what I can tell it heals each player (up to 3) for the full 110% (so 330% total if you have 3 people that need healing). Which makes Dance of Chi-Ji (if my numbers are correct) actually really (situationally) good.
So at 631 ilvl (minus a few items/trinkets that had procs) SCK does a bit over 100k over 1.3s. Though due to armor this was closer to 80k. With Dance of Chi-Ji:
80k * 5 (enemy targets) * 4 (Dance of Chi-Ji) * 3.3 (110% healing on 3 allies) = ~5.3M hp / 1.3s = ~4M hps.
With lightning/jade empowerment I get around 115k over 2.6s:
115k * 8 * 5 (Jade Empowerment) * 1.9 (Jadefire teachings) = ~8.7M hp / 2.6s = ~3.3M hps.
They’re both really close as far as hps, total hp, etc… SCK is a bit quicker allowing a faster return to punching/kicking, and is mobile. OTOH Jade Empowered lightning procs can be stored and are at range (which may be useful in some circumstances).
This makes it an interesting choice for Conduit builds since SCK procs Flight of the Red Crane which pushes it even higher. At least until 11.1 where it seems fistweaver spec must die because blizz hates it…
That’s interesting. I was actually looking at trying dance of chiji because I don’t really like the lighting. I find myself sitting on the charges for when damage comes out but it’s such good damage too. So I’ve been trying to sit on one charge.
I do need to figure out how they function in single target.
Thought I’d add a bit for anyone still reading/following this far.
Tried Dance of Chi-Ji for a few 10s to see how it plays out. And I feel overall Jade Empowerment is the better choice.
Because it’s a proc and not a charge (like Jade Empowerment) it often doesn’t come at the right time. When it does proc at the right time, it’s fantastic. An aoe pull with Chi-Ji up, the hps is insane. 1 spin can often top the entire group, and you don’t even break your rotation.
But that’s IF you actually need all the healing. Jade Empowerment otoh is there whenever you need it. No timing/chance needed. It really is much easier to use.
Jade Empowerment also does more damage, by a lot. I know dps is secondary but it’s still something to keep in mind. So (as is often the case) stand’n’spam does more dps than fistweaving… because that makes sense!??
Disappointing, on paper it had promise…
This is exactly what I suspected.
Add in you can lighting mobs at range when you get forced out of melee too.
Thanks for testing!
No. Iirc it’s a 35% damage increase to the initial/first black out kick. The subsequent blackout kicks now do 50% less damage and therefore 50% less healing. They also removed the ability for the cleave damage from black out kick to proc gusts of mists. So teachings multi strike overall does less damage and healing in cleave. This was a massive nerf to our rotational healing which is (checks notes) about 80-90% of our healing both passive and active. This was all to compensate for making chiji just baseline better in single target. Which it should have done to begin with no other comparable cool down by healers is as limited and underwhelming as chiji imo. If you press avenging wrath it just works without a hundred rules for use case. Need it? Got it? Use it works as intended every time and always comes in clutch. Chiji has so many things going on with it and rng stuff related to it that would be much better if it was just gauranteed healing without a target cap of 2 for the most effective use of it.
In cleave dance will always have greater up time and healing throughput than Jade. Jade is preferred 1.) for the higher damage, 2.) Dance is really weak in single target especially compared to the alternative. Jade is recommended because MW struggles with single target and needs all that they can get. We also have a lot of limitations in our spec that other healers don’t have an general lack of group utility and buffs (cocoon and tiger’s lust are it and they’re not even good compared to similar things other healers have) so right now MWs are overcompensating by cranking JE for damage. You can hypothetically get 1m dps as MW with crit haste gear and MoH damage amp. It won’t do as much healing in cleave but mw is already p strong in cleave and struggles in single target, so the solution to the problem is that if mw can’t out heal it and can’t empower the party to out-sustain it (no pain suppression, no iron bark, blessing of sac/aura mastery,etc) then the MW solution is to kill it faster.
I’ve timed 15s and 14s with Dance it is viable until +16 when healer damage becomes very important to passing certain dps checks, especially because Aug is increasingly desirable to have for survivability of aoe damage abundant in the dungeon rotation. Aug is a general single target dps loss, so is MW, which is why spec’ing to do more and more damage with JE in single target is preferable to any other choices blizzard has given us. This depends on key because a key like mist has all multi target bosses and large trash pulls that can justify dance especially in high keys, but for the most difficult dungeons like City of Threads, JE is just better because these are very hard heal and dps checks and JE is the only realistic option. I will note that dance is better in the last boss fight of CoT because the beatles make dance a free healing cool down and standing still to cast jade on last boss is often dangerous. There’s not really a good time to do it. But for first, 3rd, and to a lesser extent 2nd boss, JE is just so much better. It’s the only dungeon where i run JE it just feels flat out required even as low as +13 or 14.
Blackout Kick damage increased by 75%.
Jadefire Awakening now causes Blackout Kick to cleave 2 additional enemies at 20% effectiveness (was 70%)
Right now my BoK does 96k dmg.
96 + 96x0.7x2 = 230k dmg
96x1.75 = 168 + 168x0.2x2 = 235k
Now that’s not counting gusts of mist, but I don’t see anywhere that there’s any change to gust of mist procs. This seems like a small buff in multi-target, but a big one in single target.
You’ve clearly done higher content than I have, I’ve timed a few +12s. I felt that it rarely procced when it was needed and JE having stacks meant I could use it when convenient, even storing up stacks for big healing events.
But maybe I’m just not running my CDs properly? It seems weird to see the focus on DPS when I have to throw pretty much everything at these fights simply to keep the group up in higher content. Trading healing for dps seems like a bad idea… how do you manage to push out the HPS when trading HPS for DPS in the higher keys?
Thank you for this. I wasn’t able to get to it earlier.
The change literally takes the functionality from multitarget and makes it happen on single target, which is an absurd buff.
You now have a CD that’s really strong everywhere with 0 drawbacks.