Hard disagree, Legion’s Vivify was such an awful spell it wasn’t even funny.
Mistweaver absolutely needs to preserve the uplift mechanic. Even if it’s in a dumbed down and very underwhelming way as it currently is, you can’t just take away a core fantasy of the spec in exchange for a bad spell.
not wanting to necro a reasonably old post, but wanted to add my 2c. I’ve been playing since legion in different capacities and mainly playing healers. Rsham, Rdudu, MW and I must say the BfA MW feels amazing in keys (with a reasonable amount of haste). I even prefer it to a my Rdudu and definetly to my Rsham. But we are so bad in raid. to the point that my RL always wants me to bring my druid instead of the monk. Now I could be playing the build wrong or I am just bad. But it seems like all other monks I play with suffer from similar issues.
I’ve been recently talking with a MW from MoP and I have to admit that that “build to uplift” playstyle sounded so much fun. At least for raids. I dont know how it would behave in keys. Now, whether that is a playstyle the devs want to bring back or not is up to the devs and their expectations for the game, but I agree with OP that something has to be done. I find the suggestion mentioned in the link from OP to be a good start and want to cast my +1 to them.
I’m all for bumping an old post, especially considering today’s beta build had 7 blue posts across various classes and still nothing for Monks. We are now the only class that hasn’t had a single blue post across (at least) beta.
*hasn’t had a single blue post since day 1 of Alpha, April 15.
Personal opinion of course, but if they bring back Chi then MW will be as dead to me as HPally has become.
I realise opinions on the subject are divided, and some really enjoy Holy Power / Chi playstyles, but there are also those of us who detest secondary resources on healers. Mana is my resource and triage (while cycling in some DPS) is my gameplay. I don’t want nor need a secondary resource to generate and track.
While I would actually love for Chi to return, that would just be superfluous at this point because there are MUCH bigger issues at present for the spec: Mastery, Upwelling, Rising Mist just to name a few
I don’t know who Shadow Priest is slipping money, but they’re getting so much love lol.
In this newest build, the Insanity requirement for Void Form is removed, AND Legacy of the Void now gives stacking haste like the retail version of Void Form. AND Void Bolt extends Devouring Plague.
And… nothing at all about monks.
I agree. My personal opinion … if they bring back chi spenders (essentially having to have combo points system) to heal, then I will look elsewhere for a healing class for SL.
I don’t like that system, and I don’t particularly like the idea of having to fistweave. I don’t like making it a requirement that I get into melee range.
That’s fine if they go that route and that’s what the majority wants…just make it known so I can go play another class.
well then lets necro the sxxt out of this post in the (hopeless) hope that blizz will notice us.
as for what the changes are - i dont care what they are, there just need to be changes. as of now (longer cd on crane, same lack of aoe heals as in bfa) mistweaver seems dead to me…
We really need some attention ;;
I’m a bit fed up with “melee healing” also… but less so on the Monk than the Paladin.
Monks, for raids anyway, can spec into Upwelling if they don’t want to Fistweave. Even Focused Thunder is viable in M+ for the vast majority of us.
In SL, Holy Paladins will be at a huge disadvantage if they can’t get into Melee to generate HP via CS… regardless of how they spec. Fortunately Monks don’t have this problem, and hopefully never will.
As for Melee healing in general… I’m a pretty average player, I don’t play perfectly 100% of the time, and have on occasion been one shot by a cleave during a hectic pull in M+. As such, I prefer to heal from Range as I can get a better overview of what’s going on and don’t necessarily need to move every 2 seconds.
Oddly enough, I’d rather play Upwelling for M+ and RM for Raids, but that’s not what the numbers say at the moment.
The biggest problem I have with melee healing is that you often find yourself dealing with more danger/cleave than at ranged. Melee fighters deal with the risk by having tools that don’t channel, or at least allow movement while channeling if they do (yes we can discuss WDP as an anomaly for that, or the duration of SDK).
However as healers, we are required to have hard casted spells and abilities. Yes SM channel allows EM and Vivify to instant cast, but you are still standing still and channeling for at least a global for those “instants”. This increases the danger and risk for melee healers, not to mention the lost healing globals to be just as responsive to cleaves as melee fighters.
We need better instants, or better protections during spell casts to make the melee range more desirable. Also we need to heal at least as much if not more than other non-melee healers. Bigger risk and effort should deliver bigger reward. (I am aware that last line won’t sit well with traditional ranged healers, but it is my opinion).
I get you dont like melle healing - personally I like it, but to each their own. You should have a choice tho! But the current choice is fistweave, which is good in keys and imo bad in raids, or upwelling which is also good in keys and (at best) decent in raids.
but that brings us to what has been mentioned as one of the core problems of the MW monk - the fact that most of our healing comes from essence font, which has a very unrewarding gameplay (pop and go afk).
I think Font is decent though. The gameplay is truly cast Essence Font, Renewing Mist targets affect by Font, and then Vivify if no charges of RM, again only on targets with Font active. While Essence Font is your highest heal, your mastery heals for huge numbers too.
In the grand scheme of things, this is more interactive than the other raid healers: Hpriest spams prayer of healing, Druid casts wild growth basically on cd, and resto shaman could cast nothing but chain heal and likely be ok. All of those healing systems are much duller.
That being said, the MoP days of MW were better. I’d prefer that style of play (WITHOUT healing spheres, hate those things) a lot more, for ranged monks.
At the very least - fistweaving will be much more desirable in raids with the new SL legendary that causes all of your attacks to heal others. The HPS loss you normally take for fistweaving will now be non existant and you will likely heal for just as much as the upwelling build, it will all be about desired playstyle: which is a one up monks have over paladins at this point.
It’s not that I dislike Melee healing… actually I rather enjoy it, but I’m fed with it due to extra workload that comes with it due to current environment, specifically in M+.
Prior to the RM nerf (fix, let’s be honest), I was having a blast fistweaving in Raids. Since the Nerf, I went for an all Crit Upwelling build as it vastly outperforms RM.
Channeling EF is boring yes, but it actually has a lot of gameplay synergy in 8.3. I’ve stacked Crit via corruptions (~60% unbuffed) so with various procs or SI trait, I’m frequently at 80% + and at times 100%. Lining that up with a fully stacked EF and/or Revival is quite satisfying.
Once corruption and Azerite goes away however, all that will go with it.
In M+ I never run upwelling. Occasionally I’ll run Focused Thunder, just for a change, but I only every use EF for the HOT to get double mastery procs, and then extend it via RM. As such, I stop channeling once all party member have the HOT.
The reason why I’m “fed up” with Melee healing in M+ is just because of the extra work involved keeping one eye on health bars and the other on melee mechanics and swirlies under your feet hidden by the mob pack.
In saying that however, the Monks ability to heal while moving is quite impressive, especially with RM… and I really notice the difference when healing on my Shaman.
But builds like that were only possible because we were in the latter tier stages for the lifetime of the expansion, which meant higher secondary stats, azerite traits, and (primarily) corruption effects. Blizzard recently posted secondary stats won’t scale as high in SL so that is out the window, it will be the beginning of the expansion so stats on that tier will be on the lower side anyway, and obviously corruptions won’t be available. All of that collectively (minus corruptions during Eternal Palace) served as a band-aid to make, for example, Rising Mist a viable build.
Later on, corruptions like Ineffable Truth helped make up for the Rising Mist nerf, but even then only made it a shadow of its former self. Granted, it was highly broken during its peak and needed to be reigned in; but not made irrelevant. That is why I have no confidence for Rising Mist and the new Invoke Chi-Ji (which is on a 2-minute cooldown anyway) to serve as a VIABLE Fistweaving build.
This brings the same major issues people have with the spec: Upwelling providing lackluster gameplay because it accounts for way too much of your healing, not enough interactions with Mastery, and the clunky “noob trap” of Soothing Mist + Vivify.
Honestly, my biggest grip with the current state of Mistweaver is how its play style was changed in Legion from its MoP/WoD iteration because Blizzard felt that blanket-ReMs and Uplift made the spec too difficult and required too much ramp time to be responsive. But then they took that same play style and gave it to Disc Priest (although they didn’t reach their full potential until later in Legion when Power Word: Radiance was given a second charge) and later on Glimmer HPallies. Towards the end of the BFA beta, they gave ReM charges and added the Vivify combo, but was/is a clunky stopgap.
Yea that’s what I meant… great synergy in 8.3 but that’s all about to go away.
It’s one of my biggest gripes with borrowed powers and compounding systems. A class/spec which you thought was terrible suddenly becomes great due to synergy with a new borrowed power in a .x patch (Glimmer anyone?!)… or vice versa, a spec you enjoy gets changed into one you don’t for the same reason (Glimmer again… some Paladins hate it).
For once, I wish the classes we see in Beta would actually reflect what they’ll play like at endgame when the expansion goes live.
If anything the secondary stat change plays in the favour of Rising Mist, since Upwelling gains more power through two stats while Rising Mist has to balance haste into it. Even with just 4 ReM you are just about 70% SP off of equaling EF’s entire heal with two vivify casts.