If the playerbase was a bit more honest, they would realize the Purge was a perfect storm situation that just spiraled out of control. No one intended it to happen that way (except maybe for the high elves, although they came in at the very end)
That said, making jaina the leader of dalaran was a huge mistake everyone should have seen coming. If i was a BE in dalaran i would be scared that Jaina is going to take her anger about Theramore out on me, which is kinda what happened.
I really wish blizz would release numbers on those killed those locked up and those that left.
They are not equal due to the amount of people in each city that were still in them when Sylvanas destroyed them.
To say nothing of the ability of both races to recover from what they lost with their cities.
If you think Teldrassil and UC were equal you either didn’t play through one of them or the content didn’t matter to you in the first place so you barely noticed one or both of them. They were very different and unequal.
You just reworded what I said to try and refute what I said. Rastakhan meant something to the horde. He was almost a nobody to the Alliance. Saying it was a reprisal (or response or vengeance or whatever) for Teldrassil was a lie. Rastakhan and the Zandalari had nothing to do with Teldrassil. Using the Alliance as a plot device to stuff Rastakhan in a fridge to advance Talanji’s development is not answering for Teldrassil. Teldrassil remains unanswered for.
Yes it was a reset. The Alliance and Horde were in the exact same spot with 8.2. The quests all most mirror each other word for word regarding the fleets.
Then why did you even bring Jaina up? That is a point I have criticized in the past and will continue to do so. And it very much matters. If people don’t criticize them they will continue to do the same stuff over and over thinking there isn’t a problem. What was even the point here? To argue over something we agree on like we don’t agree?
No is not.
teldrassil civilians died.
they give the player a quest where they have to try to save 1 k of civilians in 3 minutes (impossible) for maximum shock value.
UD civilians already evacuated and they were expecting the attack already. “you won nothing” as she destroy the city herself.
teldrassil is pretty much unjustifiable.
The alliance DID had to work with THRALL and SAURFANG.
and multiple times with thrall in cata, in wod, and now again.
and you know, saurfang the 3 times genocidal orc and basically the one who started this dumb war and genocided the nelfs.
but again i always agreed that forcing people help the enemy of the opposite faction is dumb so blizzard should stop with the faction war nonsense or stop forcing you to help your enemy.
They were from a narrative standpoint… A city for a city, no major characters killed on both sides. If anything the horde was just drained of yet another character.
Exactly, he ment something to the horde, something you seek to inflict upon the horde is to off their characters, to get ‘revenge’. Dosent matter he ment much to the alliance or not, a loss to the horde nonetheless (something you are seeking).
Cuz its mind blowing to see people say the opposite when iv clearly illustrated how it is not so.
I dont think people criticizing blizzard is working, literally just happened again this expansion.
Just saying you’ve argued against it dosent really win any points with me.
What? From a narrative standpoint most of all they are unequal due to narratively the number of people that died at Teldrassil and the number of people that didn’t die at Undercity.
At the Battle for Lordaeron? Who? Saurfang? He’s back now.
Both Horde and Alliance had to work with Saurfang to save Baine.
On this point you’re just being Pheandra, but in reverse.
Yes, the War of the Thorns and the Battle of Dazar’alor are almost one-to-one parallels where the Zandalari lost their fleet and their king was attacked, so that that extent Horde players did experience something similar to the combat losses and attack on Malfurion that the Night Elves experienced.
No, the Zandalari and Dazar’alor had nothing to do with Teldrassil, so no, the Battle of Dazar’alor has no relevance to vengeance for Teldrdrassil.
That I agree with.
A bunch of non-important characters, that have next to no impact on the story. So from a narrative standpoint yes even. As we’ve seen before blizzard dosent really care about canon numbers at all, I mean how then are the blood elves even able to field an army time and time again?
It does though, a step closer to winning the war, and well as many alliance wanna do, dismantle the entire horde. So yes it does have relevance.
Isnt that what you want though? The horde player to experience loss?
Thats actually what you want…you just dont realize you’ve gotten it.
Quite the opposite. Narratively Teldrassil was a loss. Narratively, no - as you put it - important characters care that Lordaeron was lost.
Immediately stepped back with Nazjatar. All that’s happened is a return to status quo back to where we were before, with no concept of the Horde being dismantled in sight - hell, even Jaina wants to make friends with the Horde again, and of course Anduin wants to heal the Horde, too.
You’re responding to the wrong person probably. I’ve laid out what I want is for the Horde to atone.
I’d personally like a deterrence to future wars for the Horde. A tremendous loss of life from the army that slaughtered its way to Teldrassil to show that the war could never be worth it. We all know this is going to end in a finger wagging from Anduin, but before we get there I wish for the Horde populace that is still supporting Sylvanas (which is apparently all of them) to feel this war awakened a sleeping giant rather than was another consequence free power trip and slaughter like Theramore. The Alliance needs to show that they can protect there own, and avenge the civilizations and races that fall in their care.
And the best part is, since only main characters apparently count, no one should object to a bunch of nameless NPCs dying.
Exactly, so was the undercity a loss. No important characters were lost there either ;). Even.
Only from a naval standpoint. Btw which blizz had to god mod pretty much for the horde…
Dont think I am.
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly the opposite of what I said. Though obviously you also know that, as you always do.
I think you do think you are.
Narratively, teldrassil is much more focused on while UC is simply forgotten, but that is not really a point in either direction.
Also…i hate to mention this but losing UC is a much bigger deal than losing teldrassil to the playerbase. Losing UC would be like the alliance losing Ironforge. Losing Teldrassil would be like the horde losing Silvermoon. UC was our second best city, and had a high number of players based there at any given time.
Super cool desgin too
All in presentation teld was as you said given a focis and this long fight for it until it was lost them given a cenmatic to show ot burning. UC had no bulid up and while it had a cenemstic the city was empty at that point. So IC just feels underwhelming
Thank you. That’s what I was saying, too.
You’re talking gameplay wise? Because players can always set Undercity back to playable whenever they want. There’s not even a reason to switch it back to its destroyed state, unlike Teldrassil at the moment as it’s tied to the Darkshore world quests.
First, They were narrative differences. The most grievous of them was the guaranteed success of saving all the horde civilians versus the guaranteed failure of 900+ Alliance civilians. That is very unbalanced to one side.
The Alliance clearly wanted to hold on to Teldrassil at all costs but couldn’t do it. The Horde clearly went in planning to lose UC and used it as a trap, but it didn’t work. Those are vary different scenarios.
Second, The bit with Rastakhan was claimed to be the payback for Teldrassil, but it was an empty claim. Likely just made to hopefully fool everyone into letting Teldrassil be forgotten.
It didn’t work because of two reasons. One Rastakhan and the Zandalari had nothing to do with Teldrassil. Two, they never made it a point for Rastakhan to have any emotional investment to the Alliance. Zul had that from past expansions, but didn’t Blizz make it a point to try and excuse Rastakhan from any involvement in that stuff?
They basically went out and took something from the Horde and try to play it off as a payoff to the Alliance. It obviously wasn’t going to work and only managed to aggravate the Horde while failing to satisfy the Alliance, both of which was quite predictable. I have no idea what they were thinking. (Other than Rastakhan was slated to die to advance Talanji, maybe they were figuring they could get two birds with one stone.)
Third, criticizing them does work. The Alliance hasn’t had much to do with Thrall, at least not to the levels of Cata.
I don’t know what you expect me to do about it aside from Criticize them for it. Trust me if I owned enough stock in the company to make them tremble at the thought of me selling it off suddenly to kickstart a stampede of investors running away, things would be very different in WOW.
All im really trying to say is that the alliance and horde ARE closer in terms of evenness this expansion than you think. A lot of their writing has just fallen flat, dosent mean the victories have not been had. The nights elves held off the entire horde army 8:1 and inflicted heavy losses. I could go on and on and on about how much the alliance has been winning ever since the war of thorns.
Just because some of the writing has fallen flat dosent mean that the alliance has not gotten its share of punches in (they are just not the punches many wanted). That does not mean that just because some of the victories have fallen flat the ending should have an alliance bias where even more horde leaders are lost.
Because trust me the ENTIRE expansions faction v faction story portion has fallen flat for the horde. The horde narrative was wrecked so the alliance could play hero yet again, after they already did so previously in legion especially where the horde was left largely out.
When iv read many suggestions in this thread they’ve had a heavy alliance bias towards their endings. Asking the horde to lose even more, could not be considered mutually satisfying’. The horde does not really have much left in terms of characters at all, and the expansion is more even than many think.
So what many think is ‘mutually satisfying’ just really isnt, its slanted through their factions bias.
The only positive ending is that we all die…together.
Sylvanas, Jaina, Anduin, Saurfang, Baine, thrall, greymane, Nathanos, Tyrande, maiev, everyone all dead.
Death gods? Dead also
In death no one and everyone can complain because we all get the same treatment except for the way we die.
Shadowland xpac coming up.