Because of solar beam, groups tend to bring chickens over other specs, leaving them unwanted.
Bear is suffering from the lack of AoE cc; both roar and vortex+typhoon are only momentary stops and on very long cds (30s and 1 min respectively). There are already 3 tanks with AoE silence (dh, paladin, war); giving bear solar beam wouldn’t make it any superior.
My suggestion is to move solar beam, make it 1.5 min cd, and give the fat chicken a talent to reduce solar beam cd to a half.
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ahem big boned chicken
In any case, is Solar Beam really why Boomkin is preferred? It’s great while active, but then you have a looong while before you can interrupt anything. Granted I don’t do high keys, but whenever I play Balance, I feel like my insane uncapped AoE damage is waaaay more valuable than the bit of silencing I can provide.
That said, Feral could certainly use some help, so it wouldn’t be bad to see them get Solar Beam too. Dunno if Guardian or Resto really need it
If anything solar beam and sigil need to be massively nerfed, those two spells essentially define the M+ meta. Or really they just need to undo their idiotic interrupt changes that wildly overvalued AoE silences.
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Ye it is pretty much, Feral does just as much damage and has uncapped aoe but balance is preferred simply for solar beam, even been preferred by some physical comp groups, since they changed how interrupts work in the war within aoe cc became way more powerful.
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why should moonkin have to be preferred over other druid specs ?
Being ranged dps is already an advantage. Giving other specs a longer cd solar only brings the other 3’s utilities to be on par with moonkin.
If they aren’t going to change cc or their requirement then I say just get rid of solar beam altogether and give boomy a standard caster interrupt on a 20-25 second CD.
I play a lot of druid, all 4 specs and I can say as a statement of absolute fact -
Good christ no. Absolutely not, not ever. Feral does not need Solar Beam. Period. Guardian does not need Solar Beam. It’s as strong as it is specifically because Balance does not have any other interrupt. Feral’s already very good in pvp, and you want them to have a blanket silence that takes no resources in addition to their other CC? Nah, bro.
This is as fried an ask as that dude trying to get mages to have 2 charges of Blink. Suffice to say, it’d be fun for the one playing that class, but it would blow tremendously for literally everybody else. Feral doesn’t need a blanket silence, Mage doesn’t need CC immunity, Warlocks don’t need instacast Shadowfury. Get good, stop begging for crutches.
If anything at all I would be okay with Balance specifically getting a choice node for an actual interrupt rather than a silence (do one for Shadow Priest while you’re at it). Resto doesn’t even need Solar Beam due to how bananas it’d make them in pvp.
I tend to agree with this. It would be nice but extremely overpowered. Bears can already pull huge and throwing an AOE silence on top of a perfectly pixeled stacked group (vortex/typhoon) would just limit any other tank being played. Same for Resto and now imagine a group with running Bear/Resto.
Feral doesn’t need it either. They have great damage and most ferals would need 6 fingers on both hands to accommodate another keybind.
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This is VDH without AoE grips (the better version of vortex/typhoon), AoE stun, AoE fear, imprison,. But VDH is fine. Yet, bear is too OPed for having 1 AoE silence and 2 trashy AoE ccs. Even pwar has 20s AoE knock up and mass AoE interrupt. Perfect logic.
We are talking about m+, bro. Just disable solar beam in pvp, it’s a dead mini game anyway.
Ye solar beam should stay as a balance only spells, majority of us just want them to fix how broken aoe cc is right now. Aoe cc interupts needs to go back to how it was in dragonflight where casting a incap roar will prevent mobs from casting that spell again. How it is now just made aoe silences from demon hunters and solar beam mandatory if you want to do the big pulls in high keys.
VDH has sigil of silence, Warrior has disrupting shout, prot pally has divine toll (a worse version but it’s an interrupt machine anyway). The other 3 tank’s toolkits are outdated for the current m+ mechanics, they really need an AoE silence to keep up with the formers. Bear has the worst cc toolkit right now, it really needs help.
VDH is META because of what you listed but pound for pound a Bear can withstand a bigger (physical damage) beating from a pack than a VDH can. A VDH can do the same pulls but a coordinated group is weighted more in the VDH’s favor. Give bears the pixel stacking, aoe disorient, on demand self healing and raw physical mitigation then throw and AOE silence on top of it, the coordinated group isn’t needed as much. Now throw in another AOE kick from 2 other DPS and 1 Healing spec on top of that. 5 Man Druid groups could actually be a thing.
If they want to give us Solar Beam, go right ahead. I wouldn’t kick it out of bed.
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Do you ever read a log ? Let’s have a look at ToP, a heavy physical dmg dungeon.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/C24WzqR8Fnm7K9td?fight=1&type=damage-taken - ToP 20
Zimengdh - 1,191,969 DTPS
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K3Fyc8vTXCtpafGL?fight=22&type=damage-taken - ToP 20
Squishvegan, aka arguably the best bear player - 1,639,257.2 DTPS
Squishvegan took 40% more dmg than zimegdh for the same key level.
Now, say it again, who is better at tanking physical dmg ?
Just stop. Read my post in it’s entirety instead of trying to take one sentence and spin something to try and elevate your point. Also don’t take a log from the top players in the world and think the average Joe will preform the same.
And since you aren’t grasping the point, putting solar beam in the class tree isn’t anti guardian it is more anti druid. All 4 specs don’t need the spell. Put SB in the Guardian Tree should be your argument.
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Your whole post claims that bear has an advantage in physical mitigation, which is straight up false. That gives me a doubt in your credibility about knowing this class at all.
What else does bear bring ? a 30s disorient that breaks instantly, and a downgraded version of sigil of chains or mass grips ?
Ignoring the mas silence/interrupt:
Pwar has 20s knock up + stun, single stun, AoE fear
Monk has RoP, AoE stun, paralyze
DK has 2x mass grips, 2x solo grips, mass disorient, solo stun
Paladin is an interrupt machine + AoE disorient + ST stun
VDH: too long to list
Now say, how good bear’s cc toolkit is again ?
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All I am saying is that bears don’t need solar beam and all druid specs do not need access to it. Go ahead and continue to argue with someone in a forum that absolutely has no say so in development.
Hypothetically let’s say that I am the most knowledgeable bear in the history of bears. The thread means nothing.
Hypothetically let’s say that I am the most clueless bear in the history of bears. The thread means nothing.
You posted a thread with your opinion and when people don’t echo chamber your opinion you attack and try to be derogatory to them to make yourself look “smarter”.
I encourage you to make all of the wish list posts and threads that you want. Just chill out if someone doesn’t agree with you. You might have some good ideas, you might not.
Edit- in my opinion the only ability that should move from the spec to class tree is convoke. Now adding a talent to bear that turns convoke into skull bash’s could be what you are looking for.
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I’m just a filthy casual, but for what it’s worth the only tank I play is a bear -
I don’t believe we need solar beam. What makes bears so good at tanking physical damage isn’t just that they have reasonably high mitigation with their armor, HP, and dodge rate; it’s the fact that their mastery allows them to take increased healing, which flows back into the fact that enraged regen is like 30 second CD per full HP bar. It’s the fact that bears have a massive amount of defensive CDs to get the job done.
Short of it is bears have the sauce, dude. And not to muddy the waters, our interrupt’s also range, and I use it for a lil’ baby charge when there’s no casters to interrupt.
Bear, feral, and resto do not need Solar Beam.
Edit: Additionally, I super agree with Convoke being a class ability. It’s weird to me that it’s available in the spec tree for every spec. If something’s available for every spec, you could say that it’s available for the class. Following that, logic dictates that it should be in the class tree. I don’t know that I would have it as a choice node with anything to do with Skull Bash, but I do definitely think it should be in the class tree regardless.
in logs, the increased healing is shown as Nature’s Guardian. Both enrage regen and Nature’s Guardian are included in logs.
In the ToP 20 log that I showed above,
Bear took 1,639,257.2 damage per second, and healed 1,140,652 HP per second
VDH took 1,191,969 DTPS and healed 1,033,299 HP per second. The 100k hps difference came from he played with a disc priest so he got healed from shields and passive cleaves regardless. Technically, he healed all the damage he took, that’s why it was shown as only 1M hps