Oh right, so simple. How didn’t I think of this?! /s
It is not possible to have a VTK system that can’t be abused. The initial implementation of VTK was abusable by tanks and occasionally healers to target specific dungeons while maintaining the advantages of using random queue. The ways the system can be abused can shift from one style to another, but we’re never going to get rid of abuse.
And here you just added a new avenue for abuse. Players can sit down and refuse to continue to do the dungeon until someone else leaves, giving them deserter and preventing them from being eligible for loot.
I’m not opposed to a player who chooses to leave being ineligible for loot if other avenues for abuse can be appropriately handled. I just am highly skeptical that eliminating those abuse avenues is possible. And any partial solution is likely to be worse than what we currently have. For all the flaws the system has today, it’s actually pretty good for a completely hands-off way to adjudicate potential abuse.
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What would that actually do though? The whole issue now is someone running one boss and leaving. And the other issue is a three man group holding others hostage until they get the loot they want.
Right now people do this because they want the loot, say someone got the trinket from the first boss of Ara-kara, a three man group can hold the other two hostage until they got the trinket. But if they move the loot to the end, how could they do that?
Say the two of us done Ara-kara, just us, all bosses, and the game decided I was going to get loot from the first boss, not you. First, you would have no idea if you were going to get loot or if I was, so if you held me hostage and forced me to leave, I would be taking that loot out of the pool of loot.
So, if we finished and I got the coveted trinket, not you, you could then ask me to trade it, but we are done and I can just leave, how are you going to stop me? What are you going to do once the dungeon is over?
because m+ is the end game , your normal dungeon run it’s not
I’d prefer heroic badges.
Make then warband bound, so you can grind them on a tank or healer and an alt can use them.
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It may not provide any benefit to me, I may just want to be a jerk. We kill all but the last boss and I’m the tank. I decide it would be funny to stop actively participating in the dungeon so nobody gets loot. Worse yet, if I’m the tank and capable of soloing the last boss, I can actually basically force the rest of the group to leave with nothing and then still get the items that were allocated to me.
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I think we just came full circle to the Valor badges of the original Heroic mode instances. 
But yes, I would love them to be warband bound.
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Not the first we have circled back to old systems.
The most significant instance of this: Talents. It’s easy to put out of our minds now but for a number of years we didn’t have talent trees because the game evolved beyond them.
Badges really suit what heroics are/do. A grind for gearing to jump onto other content.
Technically all dungeons and raids are end game.
Like how some people only raid normal or LFR, yet there are higher difficulties, it’s still end game. Some people are just bad or don’t want to go to the higher difficulty in dungeons, doesn’t make it not end game for them.
Totally agree - if they want us to que dungeon remove the vote kick and put the dungeon loot in the end.
THis way even a toxic player will try his best to complete the dungeons.
Only players supporting this not to happen are the ones who are leaving after the first boss.
So it doesn’t 100% fix the issue. It just fixes the issue if you happen to be lucky enough not to get one or more people who would think it fun to boot someone out, losing them both the final boss and all previous boss loots from the run.
And when you come up with a way that is different and would work equally fairly for everyone, from all the hundreds of posts on that very subject previously, maybe it would change. But I’m not holding my breath.
Or more likely think it would be fun to do a kick to deprive someone of all their previous boss drops, since they would be unable to click on any chest or receive any final goods delivery.
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Then just remove the VTK option from LFG, if none of you can see the benefit of changing how dungeons are, simply remove VTK and put all loot in a chest at the end, no one is going to know who gets what until the run is over, we all sign up agreeing that if you don’t like the group you can just leave, and if you want to run a 3-4 man premade and hold the other 1-2 hostage, you are only wasting your own time.
Even right now before M0 and M+ loot we are seeing people who can solo these dungeons, running into a group with 1-2 bad players who are not helping is not going to change the outcome, the dungeon will still be able to be completed. And arguing that people will join and not put in any effort, what’s the difference now? People still join and don’t put in any effort.
They can even take it one step further, remove deserter so if you find yourself in one of those groups where people are just sitting at the start waiting to be carried you can leave and not be punished for it, you waste what, 2 minutes of your time in the dungeon? And hell they can go even further, use the combat log, if people are trolling and using no actual spells, put them in a timeout.
There is plenty that can be done to fix any of these trolling issues you all want to take part in, but most importantly to stop people leaving after X boss is that they need to put loot at the end.
Sorry, not a very good idea. People should have the ability to remove a noxious or troublesome player from a group.
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That’s not why he’s asking for this … doing this would end at a stroke toxic players bailing after the first boss of a certain dungeon after whether getting the trinket they want or not getting it (just one example of this obnoxious behavior).
Also, while they are at it…
Just put any instance quest items in the final end of dungeon loot chest as well.
I hate having to rerun an instance because I “forgot” to click on some stupid thing on the way.
I agree that loot should be moved to the end of the dungeon. Just add all boss drops into a pool and put it in a chest at the end of the dungeon. Or give each player their own chest spawns, and have them click through all the chests like in delves.
And every time I see this option I think…what about those call outs we frequently see of people being kicked prior to the last boss.
Imagine if everyone knew there was a chest after the last boss that contained any and all items gained from previous bosses as well as the last. Do you think possibly there might be a few people who would find the idea of that rather appealing, if they are in a mood to cause grief?
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I have a much better idea which also doesn’t drastically change dungeon loot or party systems.
Do not put items that you know since beta are bis or just highly coveted on the first boss in a dungeon. And if you fail to predict that an item is exactly that, move it to the final boss.
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In my personal experience, this happens an order of magnitude less than people leaving dungeons early. I personally consider it a nearly negligible concern. I understand some might disagree, but that’s my opinion on it.
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Seems like a lot of changes for something that mostly goes away next week.
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I’m in favor of this. I think it would reduce player toxicity by carrot dangle.
Be nice or help carry and we all get rewards. Even teach new people things.
But implementation, groups could kick before last boss and then not get anything for the time investment.
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