More than 1 layer? Are there 4+ layers?

While you’re accurately stating that, it also isn’t that simple. Blizzard was also concerned about the tourist problem - the players that play Retail that also wanted to stop by to see and experience Classic.

I, myself, was a tourist to just see the game for a bit then went back to Retail (since I played Classic when it was just Warcraft).

There was no right or wrong way to do the balancing. If they set population caps of 1750 accounts H and 1750 accounts alliance per server, what happens if I want my friend to come play? We’re at the account cap.

Do you have a dynamic account cap that’s the last 7-28 days? How do you communicate to the players that X realm has X slots available?

Does the account cap count everyone who has even made a character? (So, for example, if I had a bunch of friends that played retail and I played H on a server, could I just have them all make level 1 characters as Alliance on the server to skew the population cap?)

You’re actually getting the most authentic Classic experience, really. The slowly skewing servers (this happened in regular WoW too, look at Cho’gall) it’s just amplified now.

Back in 2005, information just didn’t flow like it does now.

And while I do see the complains about mega servers, they do have servers without layers that you could transfer to, if you were so inclined to have the “more authentic” experience you desire.

I think that’s the best balance Blizzard can strike. Servers with layers (with the option to transfer off of them) to servers without layers.

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Yes, i dislike layering, and somewhat dislike the notion of paid transfers at the discretion of the players.

But like I said, there were actually various ways that Blizz could have tried to change some things. (Instead, I think they wanted to watch it all unfold organically and not try to put their hands in it too much. Can’t fault them for hoping social dynamics can influence itself.)

However, they could have had meetings with previous private/pirate server hosters and tried to find out things like:

What did you guys learn? What did we do right? What did we do wrong? How was faction balance/imbalance affecting the gameplay experience on your pservers? What would you have wanted to do differently?

I can’t fathom the notion that a multi-billion dollar company did not think about these things, and/or open talks with the previous hosts of Nost/Northdale/Lights Hope etc.

Either way, here we are. Classic has been very fun in many respects. It has also been very frustrating in a few. :fist:

Tbf, the most authentic classic experience is no caps, no faction balance, none of that. Just letting it develop organically and react if things go off the rails too much.

I think a lot of what people’s expectations of classic were to capture the magic of 2005, but 2020 players aren’t like 2005 players and the player base has drifted so much further from God since then.

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Still waiting on my refund for breaking classic wow for me. I cant get world buffs i cant see half the people in world im talking to. People are disappearing when i try to kill them in pvp items are dropping to a all time low. Let me know when you wana send me my money back ill give you my credit card. I didnt ask for layers i asked for classic.

Bugs are an essential part of the Classic experience. When I played original WoW, there was plenty to go around.

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This is not a bug it was just implemented by blizzard they changed the original thing they said they were selling. This game is called World of Layers and Sometimes Warcraft.

You should have a free transfer to a server that isn’t layered, though.

I was on a server that was fine. Blizzard changed something that didnt need to be changed understand? They were the cause and effect. Nothing at all has to do with the original players on whitemane everyone else after the fact can KICK ROCKS and GTFO of our server.

Possibly, but the private server community is a fraction of the WoW community. This isn’t private servers, thankfully. Whether the types of changes that were made to private servers were good changes is subjective, though possibly not completely orthogonal to the discussion, since there obviously have been changes to WoW Classic in comparison to original Vanilla WoW, not least of which is layering, the current main topic of this thread.

So, my personal opinion is that the team should be doing their best to deliver as authentic an experience as possible, i.e. as true to the original as possible, but that too seems to be a somewhat subjective ideal to aim for.

So, things like larger population caps, a modern WoW client, and layering particularly deviate from the supposed goal of delivering as authentic an experience as possible.

I mean, we already know that they indeed did.

Yeah. I think we are actually getting a fairly authentic experience.

If you are a server with layers something was not fine.
Unless you say the opinions of a lot of your realm mates do not count?


Yeah just transfer off the server your guild is on, your friends are on, and start over riding the bench on some raid team or pugging while you watch someone’s 3rd alt get rag loot while you only need 1 item in MC.

Seems like the normal classic experience. Rogue waiting on QSR for 4 months and they give it to the alt of the GM when it finally drops and the rogue is the only one waiting for it.

Just the alt of the GM? What about the girl that flirts with everyone in the guild all the time, to the point that the GM’s wife is jealous, and still gets all the loot?

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I’m assuming the rest of the guild doesn’t feel as strongly about this as you do, then?

People server transfer all the time. You don’t have to blind transfer. You can apply for another guild(s) and vet them.

Applying to guilds doesn’t guarantee your raid spot or guarantee the guild doesn’t have problems that only being there a few weeks would show. Blizzard and most people who play this game admit it’s largely social. I’m meme’ing that “just transfer off” is a low effort answer.

By that measure, neither does being in the current guild you are now. There’s no guarantee you’re going to have your raid spot, or loot, or anything.

So pick your poison, convince your guild to transfer to a server without layers? Or transfer to a server without layers yourself and start over.

The fact that you’re unwilling to transfer off is part of the reason layers exist in the first place.

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Or you could not create the game with layers and mega servers and character transfers to any servers… This obviously could have been avoided as it has been on every other version of this game original Vanilla and Private servers.

Did you even play Classic? Servers had queues forever.

In fact, I was on Draenor and our population was too high so they offered us free transfers to our sister server, Rexxar.

The problem then, as it is now, was no one wanted to transfer. (I was one that wanted to stay, too, for similar reasons you describe.)

We even heard rumors that they were going to force split the server (as in, you chose A or B and that’s it).

This problem that you’re describing definitely wasn’t avoided in Classic. When it launched there were definitely multiple hours of queue time. There definitely was a lot of issues just like you’re describing.

The most recent time we had monster queues? WoD because the Garrison instancing caused server instability.

Again, the alternative to layers is mega queues, which no one was happy with, either. It just lead to the chicken and the egg paradox of, “if I need to raid at 6pm? I better log in before work at 8am so I can get through the queue and play”.

The reality is it points to the rather larger problem of player behavior and “tragedy of the commons”.

The WoW Classic servers, a shared resource, could be better served by players spreading out. But, in fact, players do not want to spread out and instead want to congregate on mega servers.

However, some players do wish that mega servers and layers don’t exist, but they’re unwilling to sacrifice, by transferring to a new server, to make that happen.

Sound familiar?

The question invariably will end with, “why should I have to sacrifice?” and my answer to you is, if you don’t want layers, you’re free to transfer to a server without layers.

If you don’t want to pay for a server transfer? You’re free to spend hours in retail farming gold to buy a few tokens and transfer.

If none of these options appeal to you? Well, you’re also free to quit playing which also does work towards the reduction of players and layers on the mega servers. I hope you don’t quit playing, though, and take a step back, find some perspective, and try to find a way to work with us during the pandemic than against us. Hopefully, layers will just be a temporary problem.


Yeah i was in on Stormreaver we had 2.5 hour que’s part of the game, but it feels pretty disingenuous to think that launching the game with layers has no correlation to us having layers now. Thus I completely understand peoples need to voice ire over a game design decision and I believe the answer of “just transfer off” is low effort and dismissive of the situation as it actually is.