More evidence that tuning for raid needs to be separate from m+

Community General Discussion
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The most recent round of tuning brings again to the forefront yet again the absolute critical need for separate tuning for raid and mythic plus.

I will highlight one example of several from this round to make the point.

Mages of all flavors are presently pretty weak in raid. Arcane is slightly below the median, and both fire and frost are at the bottom of the list (I’m setting aside some caveats about the quality of log data, particularly where one spec of a given class out performs the others so all the best players flock to that spec, leaving only weaker players playing fire and frost, skewing their numbers down lower than they truly are). A buff to mage raid performance is absolutely warranted.

Warcraft Logs DPS Stats:

  • https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/35

However, they are extremely strong, and a meta pick, in mythic plus. They are in the overwhelming majority of the highest keys completed this season (30 of the top 40 keys, as of the time of this post, include a mage). A buff to mage performance in mythic plus is absolutely not warranted.

  • https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards-strict/0#content

Now mages are receiving a substantial buff, presumably targeting their weak raid performance, but which will cement them into the mythic plus dps meta, making them all-but-required in the highest keys this season.

The ideal comp in keys before this change included an augmentation evoker, havoc DH, and one flexible DPS spot. Mages were very competitive for this slot (and they got it most of the time), but rogues, boomkins, enhancement shaman, and demo locks were all possible picks. With this change, the mythic plus meta will be hard locked, and bringing a mage will be required to hit the top of the leader boards. Mages plainly and obviously did not need any buffs in mythic plus. The data on their performance makes that abundantly clear. Yet, they are receiving a substantial buff, including (inexplicably) to fire’s AOE with a 12% flametsrike damage increase.

This happens all the time. And it will continue to happen until Blizzard separates raid running from mythic plus tuning, just as they previously did with PvP tuning.

Would separate tuning for keys mean more work for Blizzard? Maybe, but I suspect it would be net neutral, or perhaps even less work, since tuning that can be more appropriately targeted is more likely to be successful, requiring fewer successive tuning passes overall.

Having a well balanced game also increases many players’ enjoyment of the game. If you tend to play one class instead of rerolling to the flavor of the month every season, having a relatively balanced game means you can just play what you want without feeling like you’re inting your friends or guildmates.

Balancing is incredibly important to wow. And until Blizzard separates tuning passes for raid from those for mythic plus, it will continue to be a source of frustration for players.

Here’s a video from Tettles discussing this same issue for those who are interested:

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aN_Pp-Ff2c
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I get what you’re saying…but NOBODY wants their classes to change based on what PVE content they are doing.

(P.S. I know I can’t/don’t speak for everyone…it is a general statement)

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I think there is a big difference between changes (i.e., things that make your abilities do different things) and tuning (i.e., making certain abilities do more or less damage or healing, as appropriate).

If flamestrike does 12% more damage in raid than in keys, you wouldn’t feel it or notice very much it in your gameplay. It would just change your breakdown on the meters.

It would also make it way more likely for specs like windwalker, which historically is great in keys and mid to bad in raid, to actually be good, but not completely broken, in both forms of content.

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The problem is that the % changes would drive changes to entire builds and rotations as people try to maximize DPS. So the outcome would be that instead of having an AOE and Single Target rotation that you have to master…you have a raid AOE, M+ AOE, and raid single target, and potentially an M+ single target (If anyone actually does that).

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You see that as a negative, I see that as a positive. Playing a different build in a completely different form of content is completely reasonable in my opinion.

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M+ ST only in low trash tyrannical situations, which to mind isn’t really present this season. But Theater of Pain? Yeah I did.

And balancing ST, AoE and pvp has to be difficult as heck.

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Welcome back god comp again, gj Blizz

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Remember how long it took them to separate tuning from pve and pvp? They even tried it with dedicated pvp gear for a couple years. Hopefully this ball gets rolling a lot faster!

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Having my AOE and ST spells on the opposite side of the talent trees is already tedious enough.
I couldn’t image those same spells also being tuned depending on the content I’m in.

Frost Bolt should hit for 100 baseline damage verse a world mob, a player, a raid boss, or a dungeon pack. Not 200 in raids, 100 in the world, 75 in PVP and 125 in Dungeons.

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M+ tuning often happen after MDI, raid tuning happens early.

No I don’t think those changes will make mages “op” in keys, but sure you might see more of them.

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rotations in wow are really easy, this is not a valid concern.

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12

Tell that to the player base that has downloaded Hekili 33.1 million times. Nothing says “really easy rotations” like the #30 most downloaded add-on ever made being a rotation helper.

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M+ needs regulated back to the side game it was in Mop and WoD. So tired of this game trying to prop up this 5 man content as pillar of the endgame.

You can’t balance a game with 39 specs around 5 man dungeons and expect the devs to deliver fun class fantasy.

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If you’re using a rotation helper, it will be updated to give you the new rotation (if the tuning differences even result in their being one–aura buffs don’t change your rotation, just the numbers).

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the only thing that this statistic proves is that people are lazy, not that the rotations are hard.

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Plus curse counts every update as another download.

I use it for my rat alts that I don’t care to learn to play when I’m just leveling up the squad. I’m not reading talents to queue dungeons for xp lol. That doesn’t make it hard to do, I just can’t be arsed to do it on my 7th alt.

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