How many of Thralls villains are around today. He killed Garrosh, Grom is dead, Saurfang was never a competitor and neither was Drek’Thar.
When did this happen?
Alliance is mining Azerite as well so idk why
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Grom isn’t Thrall’s villain. Why would you lie about that?
Lie.
Saurfang was the leader of the Might of Kalimdor, the union of the Horde and the Alliance in Silithus against the bug people whose name escapes me. Saurfang is widely respected in vanilla in character, and massively outshone Thrall out of character because he was so much more powerful (as an NPC) and often killed raids by himself.
Dude people loved Drek’thar. Drek’thar had stories that didn’t involve Thrall. Such as when Garrosh commanded him to help Sylvanas, and he refused. No Thrall required.
Undercity.
That doesn’t make Sylvanas doing it okay or respectable by the Horde.
You’ve opened a can of worms.
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Grom was always Thralls villain. He represented the return to the bloodlust and demons that the Orcs were always on the verge of. In the end, Thrall had to defeat Grom in order for Grom to defeat his demons (literally).
Thrall was neutral at that point. Drek’Thar was “stealing” from Garrosh’s spotlight.
Treng seems to believe the Skeletal Minions Sylvanas raises at Undercity have the souls of the dead bound to them - rather than being soulless Skeletal Constructs animated by her magic.
(Ignoring her need of the Valkyr to make actual Forsaken)
He also thinks anyone raised into Undeath is damned.
Both are just his guesses. There is no evidence of either.
The Undead she raises speak of the same Darkness Voljin and Lightforged and everyone else talks about. Any death is a damning by that logic.
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Oh right, And my point and question in this entire post was why the Horde accepted her and her Forsaken if you didn’t want to look like bad guys. Raising your own dead soldiers and alliance soldiers as undead is not something that is generally ever going to be looked at as positive. As Death is a negative. And it’s not just death they are wreaking. Yet they have been doing this since the very beginning.
I’m having to repeat myself because I’m not sure you read this entire forum post.
The game doesn’t present that freeing of orcs from their slavery as “Thrall and Grom” or “Grom and Thrall.”
It presents it as “Grom freed us.”
He wasn’t neutral during vanilla, when Alterac Valley was introduced and the story there had nothing to do with Thrall.
I didn’t ignore it. You’re ignoring that the entire reason she needs the Valkyr is because they can go to the Afterlife to obtain souls. She cannot. The souls had not yet departed the battlefield.
Mercy isn’t an easy road.
Regardless of the origins of the undead in the Horde, whether it be mercy or whatever you might think it is. They should’ve been ousted a long time ago if they didn’t want to look villainous.
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They were added for out of character decisions. Not much good complaining is going to do about it. The Horde needed a fourth race, so the Forsaken were that fourth race.
Grom freed the Orcs by freeing himself. But he always represented the old, demonic Horde. It’s why Thrall punished him by sending him to Ashenvale to harvest lumber when he attacked the Humans for no reason.
This isn’t meant to slight Grom by the way. He damned and saved the Orcs and is probably the best character blizzard has ever made.
When they were made doesn’t really matter. my point still stands. Undeath is hard to portray anything but pure evil when they literally feed off of life.
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Lie.
The Horde has a holiday entirely to celebrate Grom Hellscream. He is a Horde hero.
“Why did the characters complain about something that they couldn’t change or affect because Blizzard decided that the Forsaken were joining?”
He was also the first to drink the demon blood and damn the Orcs. He was the old way. It’s why he attacked humans on Kalimdor for no reason, it’s why he drank the demon blood again to kill Cenarius.
Grom was hero and villain and that is what made him special.
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He was also the first to free the orcs.
And Grom had a ton of story before Thrall was even born.
So, again, tons of orcs that don’t revolve around Thrall. The Forsaken revolved completely around Sylvanas.
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Using that logic, Blizzard chose the Forsaken because they wanted them to look evil. But that isn’t what actually happened. We can safely assume that it was just downright incompetence from the Horde sides characters to forsee that having a group that represents death would create chaos and bring an evil portrayal to the Horde because they gave them so much power.
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No. Orcs were just the most common generic redshirt npc and the Horde had two Orcish Warchiefs.
Ogrimmar is a multiracial city, and it isn’t far from either Tauren or Darkspear lands. Kalimdor’s Horde has virtually always operated as one unit. (As a Horde.)
That isn’t using my logic at all. If Blizzard wanted the Horde to look evil, they wouldn’t have had heroic quests or been flavored heroically. They would’ve been the orcs of wc1 and 2.
This expansion throw away the Horde morality, burned it alive, salt on the wounds, and buried alive. It’s dead along with any hope being it back.
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Frankly i veiw it as a result of blizzards failure to properly develop societies into the three dimensional organizations with virtues and vices. Orcs, Goblins, and Forsaken have all had their vices magnified, while Dwarves, Night Elves, and Humans have had their vices ignored.
In vanilla the forsaken were no saints, but mostly just wanted to be left alone, their relationship with humans went that humanity would strike at the forsaken (Hillsbrad struck first, and the scarlet crusade is the scarlet crusade) but the forsaken would respond would excessive force often getting people stuck in the crossfire because the forsaken didn’t care. They wanted the lich king dead, and anyone who got in the way of their vengeance needed to be run over. The forsaken did have redeeming qualities back then though, the apothecary actually did function as an actual apothecary at times, helping the injured horde soldiers, instead of just being blight dispensers, and anyone who trys to say all forsaken are evil are fooling themselves, i highly doubt the guy who wanted a pet murloc is a foul villain. The issue wound up being that isntead of focusing on the more pityable aspects of the forsaken, blizzard decided to treat them as an entire race of Putresses after the success of wrathgate, completely failing to understand that overplaying wrathgate would just make the forsaken unlikable.
Blizzard seems to be trying to redeem orcs, but the fact they had them revert to their wc2 persona as mass murdering madmen is insulting. Warlords should have had more clans deny being a part of the iron horde and help the players. It was the sad result of a dev team wanting to relive wc2 but unready for the consequences said reliving would entitle.
Alliancewise meanwhile, Humanity, Night Elves, and Dwarves all had vices removed. Dwarves used to be greedy imperialist willing to slaughter non-alliance races simply for getting in their way, night elves used to be conservative to a fault, and stubborn to the point of arrogance, and humans used to be full of corruption and a nobility who didn’t care about anything other then their personal power. As the games gone on though, dwarves have been getting whitewashed to the point blizzard has began to try and guilt trip horde players for destroying bael modan, despite the fact it was committing mass murder against the tauren. The night elves have been strangely accepting of many elements (Reintergrating mages with almost no resistance is a huge one) that in vanilla they would find appalling. While humanity has been Wrynned.
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