MoP did, in fact, sufficiently tell the story of what it means to be Horde. The setting, with the philosophies of the Pandaren about fighting for home and family, as well as the inclusion of the Sha, played into and off of that narrative as well as could be done.
The antagonist, Garrosh, was fitting for his role in that he represented the Orcish ideals that had previously been core to the Horde, a niche that Sylvanas and the Forsaken do not fill. The protagonist, Vol’jin, was fitting for his role in that he was an indomitable, open opponent of what Garrosh represented, and had been from the very start. His conflict centered around his refusal to bow to ideals that were not his own, to reject compromising who he was even if it would be the easy path. These are issues that have been central to the Horde since the Orcs first drank Mannoroth’s blood, and were well-embodied by Vol’jin.
Overall, the story was tackled throughout two expansions, a multitude of short stories, and at least four books. While many did not like the direction Garrosh was taken, it was a complete and functional narrative arc. The same cannot be said now.
The Horde no longer has the narrative resources to tell this story. It does not have the characters to satisfy the requirements of another civil war arc. As of 8.1.5, three Horde races, all of the original four, will be without leaders. There is nobody who can be the Vol’jin to Sylvanas’ Garrosh, both Varok and Baine have been so heavily undermined as characters that they are not suitable for the position. There is nowhere a rebellion can spring from and nowhere it can find victory other than locations which have played these roles already.
The notion of repeating this plot completely undermines not only the previous plot, but the Horde as a faction. It makes the Horde out to be just as evil as characters like Daelin Proudmoore believed it was. It suggests a complete lack of integrity in not just the Horde, but for the writers who have so little confidence in what was created that they feel the need to do it over.
It is a self-defeating endeavor. If the idea is that story as it was told in MoP was not satisfactory because the questions and answers were not delivered definitively enough, then the writers are simply showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the medium they are writing for. It is impossible to get the players to uniformly agree on what the Horde should stand for or be, and attempting to force an answer by creating a black and white dichotomy can only result in mass player dissatisfaction. If the answers we’re given at the end of this arc are simply the same answers as before but more enumerated, which itself is looking very unlikely due to sheer incompetence, then it can only drive people away from caring.
Anything to add? I’m sure there are hundreds of reasons why re-treading this plot isn’t functional.
The “core values of the Horde” theme doesn’t work when you have it bound to only three races (orc, tauren, and troll), but keep adding new allied races every other patch (Nightborne, AU orcs, Zandalari trolls, whatever we get in 8.2, etc). It’s weird when, to tell a story like this, they deliberately have to omit certain races from the narrative to make it work (in this case Blood Elves).
Honestly, the standard Horde themes don’t really even work anymore. It’s weird having human NPC’s insult you for being dirty and living in a hut when half the Horde races have significantly wealthier (or at least more opulent) homes than the humans do.
EDIT: Yes, they could explore what it means to be a Horde when the overall racial identity and mixture is changing in the way it is, but they’re not doing that.
The only thing I could hope to add is how retelling MoP’s story seriously undermines not only the Horde; it undermines the Alliance.
At the end of MoP, Jaina tells Varian to dismantle the Horde. Varian, previously the most outspoken anti-Horde leader among the Alliance, instead chose for peace. Ok, yes, with the not-so-subtle threat that if things happened like this again he’d lay the hammer down on the Horde, but the important part is this; Varian showed growth. He showed peace could be attained. He didn’t take Jaina’s path of vengeance.
And now he’s an idiot for that choice.
End of MoP Varian and Legion trailer Varian was a moron. Because as soon as he was gone, as soon as a new leader was put in charge of the Horde, as soon as the world itself wasn’t under direct threat… Sylvannas looked on what Garrosh did and thought “well I can war crime bigger than that.”
So the Alliance is in a narrative corner that the dev team has painted them in. If they don’t dismantle the Horde, they’re complete idiots because even recent history shows that whenever a new warchief takes over, you have at best a 50% chance of a genocidal maniac. But the Alliance also can’t dismantle the Horde because two playable factions. And Rebellion 2.0 doesn’t fix things.
The cliche of “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me” is embodied by the Alliance response to repeated Horde open aggression.
After Battle for Dazar’alor, it’s Jaina who basically goes “let’s not dismantle the Horde” and her reaction to Baine in 8.1.5 seems to be doubling down on that path. This development, I can’t even
Blizzard. You can explore themes of pragmatism vs. morality without both sides going over the top in stupid and then have them fight each other.
You could also make it so the pragmatist side has any legs to stand on by, say, not making their enemies so ridiculously goodie-two shoes no one really believes they need to act in a pragmatic manner.
Also, you can’t redo this plot, because clearly the side who says the Horde will always be evil is right if you redo it over and over again. There’s no “woops backsies” here.
dismantle doesn’t mean “genocide” it means “disarm”.
they are different things.
but yes, if the alliance wants peace after teldrassil,that it was way more worse than theramore,then yes, they are idiots.
I mean it makes sense from Anduin but it’s just so freaking patronizing as a Horde player. It doesn’t make me like him, it makes me angry that they keep making the Horde so dysfunctional that the lawful stupid Alliance has to keep stepping in to save us from ourselves. WHO DO THEY THINK FINDS THIS FUN?
the devs are probably laughing seeing both playerbases losing their minds.
and then say “we want you to have a reaction, that is good! at least you care” an seeing how that makes us even more angry to the point where we quit the game.
if this conflict started as being gray, anduin not being able to control the alliance AND NOT WITH A DAMN GENOCIDE then maybe everyone could have expected a better resolution for everyone when we return to the inevitable status quo.
so the moment that anduin declares peace with (insert horde character) at least it wouldn’t be as frustrating.
I wondered about that for a li’l bit, but then something odd struck me about th idea. If this were really one of the last handful of expansions, why include characters like Azshara and N’zoth who could carry an entire expansion?
Like, for real. If BfA is the Horde v Alliance expansion, they wouldn’t need to waste Azshara and N’zoth here. They’d instead want to use those in 9.0 as the main threats, with 10.0 as the final expansion. Or even end it with the last old god “dead-ish” and the world saved in 9.3.5 so they can retire the franchise for a couple of years and come out fresh with Warcraft 4.
Including the last long-hinted major threats in 8.0 only works if they want WoW to die with BfA (unlikely, I honestly think the devs believed BfA would be as successful as Legion) or if they’ve decided they don’t need to bank Azshara and N’zoth because their future expansion plans are already solid.
Nightborne and Blood elves I will give you, but the rest of the Horde do not live in opulence except for the higher echelon of their society.
His choice gave everyone the time they needed to deal with the Legion. Ultimately, his actions for better or worse has lead to Legion being destroyed before they could create their Dark Parthenon.
I honestly have no idea how Blizzard plans to end this expansion. They however seem to think it will end in a meaningful way. Personally, I am here to see it end, one way or the other.
And what is the alternative? We wipe the Horde down to the last man woman and child? Put them in internment camps? Peace is still the ultimately goal, that doesnt mean justice shouldnt be served either.
Ultimately, we all have two choice, quit WoW or stay for the ride. I am still interested in what the fate of the Alliance will be so I’ll keep playing.