Yeah, and it’s important to look at kits as a whole rather than a single aspect of it in a vacuum.
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real
moonkin just has passive defensive stance to physical damage the entire game for seemingly no reason other than roleplay because it needs to be “different”
yes and this is why it makes sense that mm obliterates cloth
because it’s kit is worse than mages
thank you for your insight foxman
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Let’s use a RPS metaphor as dreadful as those can be sometimes.
Yes, MM into mages is effectively scissors into paper every time.
Boomkin however is more complicated, boomkin has said “You’re not allowed to pick scissors” to physicals. So now boomkin can either A. Pick Paper and thusly either draw or win. or B. Pick Rock and lose. (which bad boomkins do literally all the time.)
Boomkins kit and utility, and there general durability mean that they control the cards in most engagements over physical classes. I didn’t say you have a perma BoP, I didn’t say you never get hit for 100k. What I’m essentially saying is this:
As boomkin you have the option to control those people that theoretically can hit you for 100k every so often, presumably inside their Gos and Cooldowns. I’ve hit a boomkin with a juicy 100k Final Verdict crit, it felt nice.
We still lost though cause while I was doing that he manged to get a jump push off and rapid cast cyclone’d my healer before I could get in the range for rebuke. He broke out of a root thanks to druid forms to keep running while his dots started ramping damage on me and my teammate, then he and his team went hard on my poor assassin rogue who had to use cloak earlier to escape the Fury cast that almost killed him.
Then because druids can’t be functionally snared or rooted he snaked his way around and while he tried to get the follow up cyclone of a healer, my little hero of a rogue manages to keep up with him and stops the cyclone, even dodging a fake cast attempt. But oops he just root beams anyway, and by now has his jump up again, jumps away and suddenly my rogue has no more options and a few instant proc starsurge crits later (about 2 seconds) he’s dead, we lose.
All of that blithering information about a round in solo shuffle isn’t necessarily important if you try and pick apart one piece or another. Because what I’m trying to demonstrate is that Boomkins have way too much going on for them to be as passively durable to -half- the of damage available in the game. While also having one of the best walls in the game you can use while stunned.
Remi has been up there mentioning something I agree with, that I don’t want you to not be durable. I want you to be durable because how of you play. I don’t even mind you have SOME reduction within moonkin form passively, but not higher than some plate wearers when you have more control utility than basically every plate wearer.
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Do people on here really want balance or do they want to win. We have to be careful because it really doesn’t take much for a spec to go from S tier to D tier especially when it comes to nerfing defensives
If restructuring their durability means they spend some time being “bad” for a while while things get figured out, after the chokehold they’ve had over this season then so be it.
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I don’t know where you’re going with this to be honest. What about their 14% less physical damage makes someone not able to choose something? What is scissors in this analogy or what are boomy’s choices? I’m not following.
Obviously, that was hyperbole. But you guys out here acting like this dr is more substantial than it is.
Bu you conveniently mention a 26k oblit like that’s even remotely accurate lol.
That whole scenario means nothing without seeing it. Freedom the root then? I mean I don’t know. I’m not gonna super analyze that scene. I’m not saying boomy is bad. Our kit is good, yadda yadda. I just think
Is crazy to say. Half the damage bro? Cmon now lol… HALF of the game’s dmg is physical? You’re insane. It’s not even remotely close to that.
…… no shot lol. Skin?! Like yeah useable while stunned is wonderful but it’s also the weakest wall in the game. Offset by a short cd too of course. Again. Different is different.
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barkskin is easily one of the best defensives in the game and survival of the fittest is the weakest wall in the game.
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There Is physical damage, and there is magical damage. Those are the two types of damage available in the game.
Boomkins get to control an entire half of that dichotomy, in a largely passive way.
This does absolutely happen to heavily armored targets due to how Frost dk works, all the time.
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If there are 2 types of damage, Magic and Physical,
and the breakdown across the spectrum of all damage in the game is 15% physical, and 85% magic(for arguments sake) ,
and boomy has mitigation against only physical,
Then are they really:
Or are they passively durable to 15% of the damage available in the game?
Because there’s a difference and your comment is EXTREMELY (maybe intentionally?) misleading.
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No amount of gold medal gymnast flips will get you away from the fact that you should not have passive durability to one of the two forms of damage while having the kit you do.
You should have to act and do things to be that durable.
You can fight about my choice of words and dodge the actual message this 311 response long thread is trying to make all day long but nothing will change that Boomkin should not be passively durable with its kit.
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ur passively resisting hunter, ww, warrior, outlaw/sub, demo damage. u could make an argument that FDK sustained damage plummets vs high armor targets too.
is that only 15% of the game :^)
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Armor does apply to mixed damage so Ret’s primary damage being holy/physical does get affected by armor, at least partially.
I welcome the Fox to tell me I’m wrong on that but Ret isn’t really why I’m discussing this anyway, it’s just another potential example.
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Very manipulative way to phrase that. There is a disproportionately larger amount of non physical damage in this game and you know that.
Not during their go it 100%, absolutely, does not.
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Dude, every class has some level of durability against magical damage, physical damage, or both. Whether that be a passive aura, a minor cooldown, a major cooldown, for X% of the damage(physical, magic, both), or for total immunity from the damage(physical, magic, both).
What boomy has is some passive physical reduction in armor, and physical/magic 20% duration in barkskin(and nitty gritty Thick Hide for 6% all if you want to get that granular) .
Sub Rogue has no passive reduction(unless you get into nitty gritty with Deadened Nerves 3% physical if you want to get granular), but does have straight up immunity to magic and physical, in cloak, evasion, vanish, or spec into elusiveness for a 20% wall on a low cd.
Ret has both large physical reduction in armor(also nitty gritty 3% total reduction in devo aur if you want to get granular), both reduction in wall and shield, physical reduction cd in bop, and magic immunity with magic bubble, and full on immunity with divine shield.
Like dude, every class has some level of physical and magic reduction and that was without even getting into healing and melee/range dichotomies and reasoning for each. Or other tools to deny damage like disarm, positioning, reflect, etc. And for some reason people are getting caught up on one reason why they’re strong with “high armor” without realizing everything else they’re missing defensively that other classes have(because they make up for it with spammable cc in clone, shifting, etc). Different classes are different.
You need to look at the BIG picture and are for some reason stuck in the weeds on this. There seems to be no reasoning going on.
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This thread isnt about every class, or spec.
It’s about the balance specialization for druids. please stay on topic
Weird how your “what abouts” brought up other specs that need to be tuned down as well.
Ret and Sub both need downtuning. Yet the former is a decent A tier spec, and need tuning down on its range and mobility. (And Sanc needs to straight up be removed from the game.)
Sub doesn’t have the passive durability, everything it does is active. That doesn’t mean it’s okay, Sub when played well (let alone optimally) has entirely too much control over the battlefield its in, especially for the punishment it can dish out, and how much it can survive.
You’re right, there are different classes, and those different classes have different resources. But when your two best examples of high durability specs that are good, need to be nerfed themselves, while they are also not as good as your spec is, then there’s a bit of a problem on your hands.
Your spec absolutely needs its armor value brought down, and in trade it needs its durability to come from some sort of active gameplay, and hopefully that active gameplay will include magical resistance as well. No “this class is also durable” will excuse this issue. Again, mental gymnastics and attempted tangents won’t change this issue.
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My examples were merely to demonstrate the difference in damage reduction profiles across classes and how they differ. I was making no statement on the relative strength of them. You could easily do the exact same exercise with every since other spec and how they fit advantageously, or not, in the entire ecosystem.
Like, I feel like you’re intentionally trying to miss the point and trying to insert some kind of weird “gotcha” moment that has absolutely nothing to do with the point I’m making lol.
Aug evoker and MM burst on cloth aside, we’re at a pretty good level of balance at the moment across the entire ecosystem of all specs in pvp. And in solo shuffle that’s especially true. Every single spec can succeed and get high rating. And in no way is boomy armor in and of itself and outlier in that context lol. Apart from residual success when it WAS a over-tuned at the beginning of the season, at the state of the game now it’s in no way shape, or form, overpowered in the entire ecosystem of specs in pvp.
Caster comparison example: Mage is technically squishier than Boomy due to armor type, but overall has much more survivability due to mobility, instant utility and substantial defensive cooldowns including immunities.
Hunters, warriors, rogues etc mow down Boomkins if they know what they’re doing, forcing us into reactive defensive, such as self-healing which is all affected by dampening, or trying to cast a clone lol good luck
Have you ever played a caster before btw? Do you know what mental gymnastics are required to counter melee in arena? Let alone TWO of them? Hunter counts as melee cuz it’s all instant stuff that is unavoidable barring LoS.
Armor is so weak and meaningless in 2023 it’s not even a joke. We need absorption shields from faerie dragons. You can nerf the other aspects for all I care, but as I’ve said before, calling to nerf caster survivability in a one-shot meta expansion is ridiculous. Classic has slower gameplay if that’s what you’re into
Not all of those specs do only physical. Sub is a lot of shadow, war has bleeds, monk can make attacks go through armor, and def not all demo’s dmg is physical. Half is maybe.
But still:
Ret does a substantial amount of magic.
Sin rogue is unaffected
Spriest
Ele
Enh is a lot of magic
Fire
Frost
Arcane
Aff
Destro
Boomy
Almost all of feral aside from bite
Most of dh
Most of uh
Most of frost
Evokers
Compared to the ones affected the most
Arms
Fury
Bm
Survival
MM
Outlaw
It’s not mental gymnastics. It’s literally just understanding data and phrasing it appropriately. That’s like walking into a room of 10 guys (who are straight) and one girl who likes you and your buddy saying “man must be nice having half the people attracted to you!”
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“i play 1 spec and here’s what i think”
insanely ironic
regardless of how much or little you know about the game you simp moonkin at every turn
when it was doing over 100k dps every game spamming starfall you were in complete support often saying it shouldn’t be nerfed in any meaningful way because it fufills the class fantasy
before every nerf to date you’ve approached with insane hesitancy
you are one of the worst people to give an opinion on this topic because it’s 1 - all you know
2 - you’re passionate
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