I’ve been reading and watching videos on Monks in Shadowlands. Just wow.
Is there any reason to continue playing a monk? Mistweaver has NO unique play style, it has low tier healing. Windwalking is just a subpar demon hunter.
Is it time to reroll?
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Do what you want. It’s a game.
7 Likes
If you’re planning to raid mythic and high-end m+ then yes, reroll.
Heroics, mid-tier M+ and pvp its fine. Assuming they’ll fix the bugs.
We still don’t have a blue post in our beta forums as well. I hope Blizzard has something big planned for WW/MW but so far it isn’t looking good. I’m going to continue playing my monk though because I enjoy my monk. 
Realistically, WW doesn’t need big changes. WW just needs a few things to become good. The playstyle is already really good.
MW needs a complete overhall or at the very least it needs a new mastery.
Also with DH getting nerfed WW might look a bit better.
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I don’t think it matters. It’s not like DH was the only thing brought over Windwalker.
If you take away the #1 pick, they’ll bring the #2, etc. If one win condition stops existing you just pick the other play and that doesn’t mean it’ll include a Windwalker, Shaman, your preferred Warrior spec, or anything else. For all you know they could bring a healer that takes up a melee spot and bring a ranged DPS instead.
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I guess that’s true. O well it was a good try. WW still bottom for next patch at this rate.
If nothing is done about the damage profile of Windwalker I think that’ll be true unfortunately unless they just tune it through the roof.
2 defensives, mystic touch, ring of peace (which should be taken comfortably now by a majority of players who were previously worried about ToK heal defensively, flexible cooldowns, and decent CC should be enough to function well in most comps for M+ or PvP. If Serenity and SEF were both viable picks then the same should have been true for fights with prio targets and damage checks.
Windwalker has never really had problems competing in a progression environment but at the upper end of ilvl in each raid tier it struggles a bit to keep up.
We have problems but those problems don’t prevent us from playing the game. Just some players would rather not deal with it every tier, for the third straight expansion.
To run through it quickly it’s like…
Week 1 guilds - Boss spawns adds that have to die quickly. Windwalker hits all 6 for a full 4 seconds channel on FoF, probably gets off a WDP, or a SCK.
Week 3 guilds - Boss spawns adds that have to die quickly. Raid is a bit stronger after 3 lockouts. Windwalker hits all 6 for 2 or 3 seconds, no WDP, no SCK.
Each week it continues, you get stronger, but your sources of damage inflation are decreasing. You get more gear but your ST isn’t increasing quickly because it’s part of your total damage profile.
It doesn’t matter to me, it’s inflation, but to people who want to push what they can do every tier it does matter a lot. When alternate talent picks don’t exist it also hurts. It hurts public perception when players look at sources of aggregate data like WCL for raid comp as well.
That’s a very crude example that doesn’t really encompass a lot of things but its just one of many scenarios that we hit often and we have no other real strengths except for target swaps w/ ToD.
3 Likes
Like I said, WW is very close to being good, but a few problems stop the spec from taking off. The few problems should be easily fixable for Blizzard I would assume.
All these changes would really help me out that is.
- WDP probably made baseline
- SEF bug is horribly annoying to try and pull off 24/7
- Scaling on Xuen and such.
- Hit combo is a talent but why? This should be an easy win for Blizzard
- 2hand working. << This isn’t gamebreaking for most people, but it is for me. I wont main WW unless I can use a 2hander. I wanna be that panda from the Cinematic!
- Our 15 row is pretty lackluster as well. But I don’t wanna ask for too much.
Personally I don’t care about the Touch of Karma shenanigans. I usually save mine for safety reason in the raid.
This isn’t hard stuff.
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This feeds into those alternate talents not existing.
The level 15 talent row is absolutely neglected. Chi Wave should not be as weak as it is for single target. Chi Burst should not be taken for the strength of CB on AoE but for the strength in the Chi Gen. EoT is just a poor design that should have functioned like a DoT from the start, on TP or on BoK.
There is also nothing special about WDP that make it a baseline option. It’s being taken because its the strongest option and I’ve never once heard from a majority of players that the choice to pick Serenity felt bad because you were losing WDP, the attention was always given to SEF. Not once have I really seen players talk about it for anything other than the damage it could do until now.
Hit Combo is the same way. The hate for Hit Combo started whenever it scaled to a point where Xuen couldn’t compete due to secondary sources of damage inflating its damage contribution when Xuen got no love through trinkets, tier sets, etc.
Now that Xuen isn’t on the talent row Hit Combo is only competing with the row for Single Target abilities. HC buffing SCK damage shouldn’t be beating out Dance of Chi’ji. RJW could use some love in the cleave department but for the most part HC shouldn’t be boosting FoF to a point where RJW couldn’t compete, if it were adjusted.
I don’t really see the desire that people have to make these baseline , or to have the removed, for any reason other than changing something just because they want to see something changed.
Personal take to make WW viable;
- RoP baseline, replace that talent with something else, maybe like, allies move faster in RoP and prevents fall damage ( can use RoP to catch falling team members, many fights have knockup effects, how cool would this be? Oh and catch yourself from taking fall damage too! ).
- Since #1 effect is strong, replace another talent in that row where you can mass transcendance; Movement utility, WW specialize in movement, makes sense.
- In the same row, last replacement, have transcendance be place-able up to 40 yards distance where you choose on click.
- Windwalker aura, make it actually work and have it be 40 yard range. + Stack with ANY existing speedbuffs.
- Auto attacks continue through casts / channels of FoF and WDP.
- WDP replaces Hit Combo; every talents in that row is AoE now with this change. Buff the other 2 talents in that row to compete.
- There is now a vacant last talent row piece if #6 is done, not sure what to fill it with yet, but it should be something to buff single target TBH.
I think the first step into making WW viable outside of scaling / tuning is utility. Keep in mind, Ret gets things like passive devo aura.
But Hit Combo is so boring. Its the same as our Mastery. Just makes no sense to keep it.
WDP makes the spec flow so amazing that it feels like it should be a baseline ability.
But hey that’s how I feel.
Would be so great.
3 Likes
Windwalker flows the same with or without it. It’s just a well designed talent. Same with Hit Combo. From a performance perspective it hits the goals, for a personal flavor I feel like it hits the targeted player pool, so if the goal is for Windwalker to have well designed talent rows why focus on Hit Combo changes over RJW changes, or Spiritual Focus & Serenity over WDP.
It’s like the ones expecting to see changes happen to the cost of Tiger Palm or want to be able to interrupt a cast during Fists of Fury because Demon Hunters don’t have to channel Eye Beam for as long, or Warriors don’t Bladestorm as frequently, or however they’re justifying this as a healthy QoL improvement.
I don’t see any practical improvements, and I don’t see any good cases made to where they are practical improvements, so without either I don’t realistically foresee changes. Not trying to kill the vibe but if we’re crossing our fingers as a community for something that I can’t even see happening, I feel like we’re just waiting to be disappointed.
That’s my point. What a boring pointless talent.
Well Designed in our mastery which we already have.
Your the first person i’ve seen who actually likes Hit Combo as a talent.
That’s the point of making WDP baseline. The other two might get considered. Its been WDP pretty much since Antorus. WDP was starting to get taken a lot in TOS though. I also don’t think Spiritual Focus has ever been taken. Probably time to scrap the talent.
Edit: Probably just get rid of SEF. Blizzard can’t seem to fix this ability.
Would just be great for Mythic+
The monk moto
5 Likes
Mastery is not enforced and does not have any real impact on gameplay.
You can’t mess up mastery to the point where you won’t get it on a FoF or a RSK.
As for being rewarded for playing correctly or anything like that if nothing exists Mastery itself might as well not even be there and the damage baked into abilities.
The differences between weaving and ignoring mastery were only noticed at the beginning because of something like Hit Combo existing. It was also rewarding you for playing well. Now we have the BoK mechanic and a rotation that kind of feeds into itself that have refined the playstyle a bit.
Like I said with the other abilities above. When it worked well nobody had a complaint. Now the complaints are coming in for what reason, or for what to be changed, exactly?
Saying something is similar or the same doesn’t mean anything. It was designed to do something. It’s currently doing it.
What is it being changed to accomplish?
What is Windwalker with it removed?
and as far as things go in Shadowlands, without the TP azerite trait or HC, the difference between a non mastery TP like 5% ability damage, if that. Theres nothing stopping you from using a double tiger palm. As many times as Mastery has gotten refocused and tightened up it still fails to reward the playstyle.
That’s why I’m failing to see the improvement made from removing Hit Combo.
“It’s boring” but “it’s mastery” and mastery is the only thing defining the Windwalker playstyle…
Serenity 6pc was king for ST and prog if you played it well. WDP existed for AoE pad but like I said, the change was picking SEF for MoTC stacks, it had nothing to do with WDP being competitive with Serenity. Even for ST the versatility in the SEF charges vs the cd on Serenity was also better for specific kill timers. WDP was an afterthought.
You get something new??
Just saying no1 is still taking the other two talents. SL is looking to be the same. TOS was the beginning for WDP being taken and was the end for Serenity being taken. That’s all. The set that made Serenity good is gone along with serenity being taken.
edit: I think Serenity is being taken by a meme with IT’s. That’s the only thing I can think of.
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Yeah well, spiritual focus was something new…
Serenity is getting some love with a conduit that’ll bring it to 40% and a legendary that replicates the set , though not as strong.
Spiritual focus isnt getting any direct attention but I think indirectly there might be some world of possiblity for kyrian specifically, possibly Fae and Necrolord as well, but unlikely.
Serenity I think is gonna be fine but Spiritual focus might be a gimmick at best.
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I hope your right about Serenity.
Spiritual Focus should be long gone at this point. This also doesn’t mean every new talent the monk gets will be as bad as Spiritual Focus I hope.
I think it would be cool to see a clone focused build where your benefitting from the SEF fixate conduit and Spiritual Focus.
Warriors, Rogues, DH, and BM all have something similar so I’m sure it can work if it was just supported a tiny bit more than what we currently have. 1 or 2 more seconds on the CDR to help it line up with damage more frequently or a passive bonus that increases SEF damage like 5% I think could do it.
Feels like Windwalker always has something going on with the spec that is external. Legendaries, set bonuses, playing around trinkets or relying on something like the WDP bug.
They’re fun and all but I’d like to see something like this exist. Just a straight forward buff to the oldest trick in the book. A punch to the face.
I hope I’m right too…
Windwalker Mastery is the only one in the game that has a fail condition, why exactly would it need to be more punishing? Losing 5-12% AP on Tiger palm and ~15-35% AP on Blackout Kick (what is that WoWhead formula? divide by attack power??) seems like more then enough of a punishment when literally every other dps mastery is a straight +% damage of some form.
EDIT: Small adjustments to percentage
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