Making monkâs tank spec brewmaster was a silly decision imo. All the other specs and classes in the game are cool, meanwhile brewmaster pulls kegs out of thin air and hurls them at enemiesâŚitâs pretty lame. Especially when so many games make monks awesome, having a goofy monk in wow just doesnât feel good. I love playing monks but I really wish brewmaster wasnât a meme.
I pitched 4 specs right when the xpac released and everyone told me I was stupid and that mw was fine and didnât have any issues. Looking back, I bet they all feel kinda stupid now.
Brewmaster takes a lot of inspiration from the Pandaren Brewmaster in Warcraft III. Itâs not a design which exists in a vacuum.
No itâs still a dumb idea. People love to throw it out as a concept while not actually showcasing how it would work in practice. Between ranged casting and fistweaving there are a grand total of two spells which arenât used in both (Faeline Stomp and Soothing Mist).
No one has been able to make a convincing argument that the idea could be pulled off in a way that didnât break the playstyle for either spec.
Since youâre on an alt I canât exactly go looking to refresh myself on your proposal, but it most likely fell under the âbreaking playstyleâ part. Most I can easily remember were only interested in turning fistweaver into a dps spec that happened to be healing.
Looks like you were actually the one fighting me on it. Since you VERY specifically want it to not be a dps that happens to heal (which fw totally is right now anyways), what if we went about it like fw is a builder/spender spec with the newly returned sheilunâs gift? FW can build clouds kicking and punching and then use some single target or aoe finishes to use the clouds being built up?
More importantly, how about you add to the conversation besides ânope, bad idea.â
Builder/Spender would probably work better, though it runs into a couple of side questions.
Overall build time; Any healer needs to have some ability to react quickly so the amount of time spent building up power has to be low or mitigated via ability.
The Disc Problem; Sometimes you just canât effectively attack a target so there needs to be a secondary healing method that doesnât rely on it.
Overall, I still prefer the Rising Mist style builder since ReM extension doesnât generally fall into the âimmediately used up and needs to be rebuiltâ situation that you get from an otherwise chi-style system.
If anything Iâd say a prospective âfistweaving specâ should hone in on RM HoT extension and healing as a base mechanic since it has the most unique characteristic out of the playstyle.
In that case it runs into a problem of creating uniqueness between Mistweaver and Fistweaver since both are looking fondly back at spells like uplift. Perhaps the focus for mistweaver could be Essence Font and thus play out more as an updated Legion spec, but Iâm not a ranged player so I canât really speak for their hopes.
I dont think a 4th spec is required. Just more defined choices. One side of the tree could be more mistweave, the other side fistweave, and the middle choice nods that fits both sides
Itâs actually so defined on each side that that is what the issue is. Thereâs no happy merger of the two as theyâre exact opposites. The vast difference between the sides is why I propose two trees. Paths in trees are supposed to add flavor and some gameplay variation, but theyâre two entirely different entities.
For mistweaving maybe, but Fistweaving only really ignores 4 nodes in pretty random places because they relate specifically to Soothing Mist.
If anything a bigger problem in the tree is just how many talents we have dealing with celestials, revival, and Life Cocoon (being essentially the entire center line and cutting straight through the melee focused talents). It really seems like some of them could be merged without too much issue.
Some good ideas for sure. I think if Sheilunâs was instant cast itâd feel a lot better as a reactive spell and help fw in that regard. Maybe chiji could increase cloud generation time wise or make our melee abilities generate clouds themselves so we could really pump out a lot of small cleave burst healing (keeping it at 3 target would be okay with me). Maybe the FW spec can have a bit of a buff support role to it as well, if weâre going with fw as the cloud and gust flavor we could give fw a windury totem like effect so enh isnât the only spec with it. would really entice people to start bringing fw to their runs. If you donât like that then maybe fw gives the entire team speed with like an aoe aura around them that people have to be within. would make it a great choice for melee heavy runs especially with some slower classes like war, pally, or dk. Maybe a talent specifically for fw that makes tigerâs lust hit 5 targets instead of one so the entire group gets to benefit. Just some ideas off the top of my head
could make it a ramp up thing for fw that it just kinda passively builds up in combat. starts at 10% goes upwards of like 30 or 40%. Give it like an 8sec duration so that sometimes youâre able to chain it to the next group but isnât so busted that it becomes like a defacto speed key spec.
Point is, MW is the big throughput all the time healer. They donât seem to want to give FW any smart healing so it can stay that way, just give it something else to give it more variety and flesh it out
Always thought a feather tosser spec would be cool for Chi-Ji. A highly mobile short range similar to xayah and rakan from League. I guess evoker fills that role now though.
(Quoting properly doesnât work for me right now as it seems, I used the âQuote through marking textâ but the preview shows it in a strange way, sorry for that!)
On the one hand, I understand the idea of splitting the heal into two specs, I have even myself thought about it once. On the other hand it CAN work to have both âspecsâ in one, but it should get improved. Having those possibilities in the tree, being able to mix them up, is interesting but it feels like itâs in the Alpha or Beta (well, itâs the first time after a while we actually do have a REAL talent tree back again. They will need time to make the best out of it)
The main issue I see in our MW talent tree are the keystones defining MW/FW. If you choose either side, the whole other will decrease significantly. Imagine wantig to fistweave but also being able to burst someone single-target. Would you give up AT for CF? I doubt it. Having such polarizations force either of the builds to become significantly weaker. This is probably one of the main reasons why splitting the spec into 2 sounds like a good idea.
BUT I think this would interfere with the class fantasy a lot. So instead of splitting, the trees need some rework. Reading through your (and other peopleâs) ideas in threads I continue in having my own.
In the other thread you mentioned already that the playstyle would be broken on one or both sides when there were key skills missing. So if a split occurred, both would need to have some parts of the talent tree exactly the same OR basekit to have both viable.
Having similar talent trees and setups or having different ones and a lack of elements would both feel kind of underwhelming. I believe people would miss parts of the others specialization.
So instead it needs some kind of rework.
I think this is something this class is really missing.
Imagine if the talent trees get reworked and you are able to build a real hybrid or being able to focus one of both builds better. You could fully go for either build or make a well-working middle. And then you have a stance that buffs one of both sides. Being able to switch the stance mid-fight the other part of the healer gets actually somewhat useful.
I could even imagine a stances being the actually first node in the MW tree. And having another talent-active that âinvokesâ this stance (other than summoning a celestial). Boosting the passive effect into a strong burst. This way the MW would have another CD with which this class might have already enough of them (with sheilunâs the gap feels almost closed).
The monk needs the class-tree better tuned for better synergies with classes.
Like having âChi Burstâ:
as MW actually proc mastery (and maybe do better DMG for a 30 sec CD). With EF you would have a decent amount of procs especially in raids aswell. Or having this skill leaving a buff or HoT.
as WW being able to make it a lot stronger (ToD has a lot of choices in the WW tree for improving). Making it a skill that uses up all chi + energy and unleasing lots of damage (exhausting the monk as he needs to recover resources)
as BM kind of debuffing enemies, making them do less damage. Or transforming this skill into a 1,5 min CD cleansing 100% stagger and throwing it at the enemies or as healing to allies. Or transforming it into a skill that also cleanses the whole stagger and turns it into a HoT over 10 seconds for himself
There could be strong and fun synergies, making weak talents actually really wanted.
This is also something I imagine being interesting - but for tanks this would likely be frustrating to lose aggro.
All statues could get a DIFFERENT way of working per spec (maybe with talent points in the class-tree) making one of the two non-class-statues work different.
For example: Make the Black OX Statue last for 10 seconds, absorbing some (not OP) amounts of damage of the group? Or let the White Tiger Statue do more damage and heal with itâs damage all group members?
âŚReading about this Gustweaver idea I had to laugh^^. This could be the 4th spec - a summoner with permanently active celestials that work different.
But I think this would be strange to have a completely different way of healing than the usual monk way-of-life. This rather sounds like a new class for me, but the idea is interesting^^ (Someone other than me could actually have ideas that would make this work, making a âsummonerâ spec that doesnât look/feel weird).
Long speech short:
I donât think a split would be a good idea. Instead the spec talent tree needs another structure
Splitting some key choice nodes like AT/CF up and syncing instead others. And removing/syncing some talents to make space.
This class spec can nicely fit both - mist- and fistweaving. And it does have the potential to even do BOTH
Better Synergies with the Class-Tree are needed (anybody out there saying Chi Burst is actually great?) - look at WW. He can combine ToD talents from both sides. Why not do that for Statues and Chi Burst aswell for heal and tank too?
Monk is a nice class and it could be great with some changes
