Monk Changes for Dragonflight - Class and WW Spec

DF Monk Suggestions:

So I have loved the monk class since it came out and have always enjoyed that blend of wacky silly abilities, swiftness, zen and the seriousness in which they can perform when in the right hands.

My hope for Dragonflight is that we get to feel the theme of the class while updating and refreshing the way some stuff works; to that end, here are some bullet point ideas that individually would be fun and collectively would be amazing.

Class:

  1. Roll - Now interacts with you spec, providing a small buff,
  • MW Monk leaves mist in the path of their roll, providing renewing mist for 6 seconds to friendlies within 5 yards of their roll.
  • BM Monk provides a buff to allies within 5 yards of their roll for 8 seconds that redirects 15% of the damage dealt to them, back to the BM.
  • WW increases the move speed of friendlies within 5 yards of their roll by 15% for 8 seconds.
  1. Celestials - I’m not much of a fan of pets for monks, nor do I think it fits the theme, so I would prefer if we took on the aspect of one of the celestials and instead it empowered and interacted with our abilities.

  2. Healing Spheres - bring back healing spheres as an alternate form of healing (to make it simpler for the player it could slowly gravitate to a player if they move within 5-10 yards of it. Instant cast mobility heal. Add a feature where double tapping puts it in front of you.

  3. Roll Out - Add a passive that when falling a distance that would be fatal and if roll is off cooldown it consumes a charge of roll and reduces the damage taken from falling by 50%. Could be a fun animation with this. Very thematic for a class that’s all about Zen and balance.

  4. One with the Universe - Ultimate ability that stores up based on the respective role contributions; MW its % of health healed, BM its % of damage mitigated, WW its Chi Spent - The Monk unifies with universe for 6 seconds and performs a function specific to their role - MW’s direct heals now apply touch of the universe, reducing damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds, BM clears all currently staggered damage and continues to clear staggered damage every 2 seconds until the effect ends, WW monks begin applying a mark to all targets they deal damage to for 4 seconds, after 4 seconds they disappear moving at light speed attacking marked targets every 0.25 seconds for 2 seconds, each attack exploding for nature/lightning damage to surrounding targets. Maximum 8 attacks, attacks in the order the marks are applied, if less than 8 targets are marked the attacks can hit the marked targets multiple times. Monk is immune to damage, healing and effects while moving at light speed.

  5. Chi burst - I would change Chi Burst to to be WAY COOLER! Rework:
    The Monk goes into a zen state for 3 seconds (channel) performing ancient hand gestures rapidly that draw negative chi out from (could be orbs or a new animation) all enemies within 20 yards and gathers it to the Monk. At the end of the channel or when Chi Burst is recast the monk releases a wide beam of chi that deals damage + healing based on the number of enemy targets and the duration channeled. Think Goku’s Kamehameha.

  6. Reintroduce styles - each celestial provides a blessing to the monk in the form of a martial style for a brief moment after they use an ability that’s in line with the celestials aspect .

  • Your RSK, BoK, FoF & TP abilities provide the monk with an 8 second tiger style buff which causes your attack speed and cast speed to be increased by your total movement speed. 20% of your total movement speed for attack speed and 10% for cast speed.
  • Your Roll, FSK & Movement abilities provide the monk with a crane style buff which reduces the cooldown of your next ability with a cooldown of 1 minute or less by 25%. Consumes the style buff when activated.
  • Your Vivify, renewing mist, expel harm and other healing abilities provide the monk with a serpent style buff which causes your next damage or healing ability to cause a puff of mist at the targets location that applies ‘mist soaked hands’ to the closest friendly target and causes their next 3 abilities to heal for 2% of their maximum health. Consumes the style buff when activated.
  • Fort brew, purifying brew, diffuse magic, ToK, dampen harm and other protective abilities provide an 8 second Ox style buff that increases your maximum health by 2% for each 5% of missing health, maximum of 20% (@50% health), the effect expires when Ox style expires.
  1. Monastery Acrobatics - Adds a wall jump and wall slide for monks. Allows the Monk to jump a second time providing that the monk is within 1 yard of a wall/surface, additionally the monk’s fall speed is reduced by 50% when within 1 yard of a wall. The jump has a 3 second internal cooldown. Once again, this is super thematic for either a Monk or a Rogue, but I think its slightly more Monklike.

WW Specific:

Firstly - Get rid of clones & pet Xuen - They are clunky and aren’t especially Monklike in theme, its weird that WW Monks are like a pet class. I have suggested what I believe to be suitable replacements using - Wind Awakening + One with the Universe + Invoke Xuen. Read further for the details.

  1. Windwalk - Change Windwalk passive to provide movement speed based on yards moved in the last 8 seconds, each yard moved provides 1 stack of Windwalk, each stack is worth 1%, max of 25 stacks. Wind animation at max stacks. Stacks expire individually. This makes it much more interactive and noticeable.

  2. Windwalk - Add an activate to Windwalk; the activate ability clears all snare, root and immobilization effects from all allies affected by Windwalk and applies 15 stacks of Windwalk (see above). 5 min cd. Provide a gust of wind animation for all affected allies. Windwalking radius needs to be 20+ yards, lingering buff reduced to last 3 seconds.

  3. WDP - baseline Whirling Dragon Punch, change it to Whirling Dragon Combo, and give it an animation where it kicks upwards and punches downwards. Allow movement during the animation.

  4. Wind Awakening - (WA) New fundamental dps cooldown - every 4th combo strike in a row builds 1 charge of Growing Wind. Max of 20 charges. When consumed, each charge provides a 2.5% reduction of cooldowns, including the global cooldown and increases energy regen rate by 2.5% per charge. Only 10 charges can be consumed and activated at a time and new charges can’t be generated while under the effect of WA. Maximum CD reduction and energy regen increase of 25%, lasts 12 seconds. No GCD. Also, add a mad wind based animation!
    Perhaps while under the effect of WA all your mystic touch applications are increased by 0.5% per stack, max of an additional 5% for the duration of WA. Total max damage increase from mystic touch during this 10 seconds window is 10% (5% from WA, 5% base).

  5. Xuen - Invoke Xuen now becomes “Invoke” Xuen which shrouds you in tiger lightning and amplifies your most iconic abilities (Think Raiden - see link for concept image https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/864480090953558426/). Lasts 15 seconds, 2 min CD.

  • FoF becomes Fury of Xuen and hits targets for additional tiger lightning damage and has a 40% chance to apply a non diminishing ministun for 0.1 seconds every hit.

  • RSK becomes Rising Tiger Kick and leaves an after image of the monk that explodes for tiger lightning after 2 seconds.

  • BoK becomes White Out Kick and leeches speed (20% slow + 20% move speed inc) for 12 seconds.

  • SCK becomes Crackling Cyclone and has its AoE size increased and damage changed to tiger lightning/nature.

  • Roll becomes Lightning Dash and now teleports 15 yards instantly, damaging enemies within 5 yards of where the monk arrives and leaves behind tiger lighting in the path, enemies that pass through it are slowed. Roll recharges 300% faster.

  • Flying Serpent Kick, becomes Accelerated Lightning and now travels 50% further, speeds up the further it travels, accumulates damage and widens the radius of the damage + slow the further you travel, releasing it when you recast the ability for 100% of stored damage + radius or instead store it for 3 seconds after Accelerating Lightning has ended and apply it on your next melee attack for 50% of the stored damage + radius. Change animation to lightning and Xuen instead of a dragon/serpent.

  1. TOK - Remove the damage AND healing component of Touch of Karma - now it no longer needs a target - Change the name to Chi Barrier - have the healing and damage component as talent option. Change the mechanic to:
    Chi Barrier - Activate: creates an absorb shield equal to 20% of the Monks maximum HP, up to a maximum of 65% hp based on how many charges of Lingering Chi the monk has.
    Chi Barrier - Passive: For each 3 Chi the monk spends, they accumulate a charge of Lingering Chi. Each charge increases the amount of damage absorbed by Chi Barrier by 15%, lasts 30 seconds and is refreshed by additional Lingering Chi charges, max of 3 charges. I like the idea of the visual aesthetic of this spell becoming more overt/opaque as the potency of the spell increases. FYI it would take around 11 seconds of building and spending to get this to maximum potency.

  2. Tiger Lust baseline

Talents:

  1. Flying Serpent Kick now travels 15 yards further and is controllable.

  2. Roll now travels twice the distance and pushes enemies out of your way, causing a 5 yard pushback. You can no longer be slowed, stunned or disabled during the execution of roll.

  3. Increases primary target damage from WDP (WDC) by 30%

  4. Wind Awakening now generates 1 stack every 3 combo strikes (down from 4) but now you can only consume a maximum of 8 stack at a time (20% down from 25%).

  5. Add a chance for you to proc “Invoke Xuen” the same way “Fury of Xuen” used to. Each time you cast FoF you have a chance to Invoke Xuen based on the stacks you have. Each Chi you spend generates 1 stacks of Xuen’s Fury, each stack provides a 2% chance to Invoke Xuen. Stacks to 100. Invoking Xuen this way only lasts 7 seconds.

  6. Prepared Awakening - talent that provides you with stacks of Wind Awakening while out of combat making it significantly more usable at the start of fights. This passive would provide 1 stack of WA every 5 seconds while out of combat. Up to 8 stacks.

  7. Change rushing jade wind (RJW) to be a toggleable passive which works like the Diablo monks sweeping wind. RJW costs 45 energy to cast and it has no cool down, last 5 seconds. RJW is empowered by the monks critical strikes while RJW is active, when empowered the radius and damage of RJW is increased by 15% and an additional 3 seconds of duration is added. Maximum of 4 stacks. Maximum of a 60% increase to radius + damage and a total duration of 17 seconds.

  8. As we have modified the Xuen cooldown to be something interactive that impacts our abilities instead of a summon, we can now have a talent as a summon xuen for those that like a pet, this would just occur at the same time as when you invoke Xuen. (Would need to scale properly).

  9. Inner strength - change to a “distance moved” buff that provides additional charges of damage reduction based on distance moved. 2% DR per charge, 1 charge every 5 yards moved for 4 seconds, stacks 5 times. Or perhaps it could work off your combo strikes like WA does, gaining stacks based on how many combo strikes in a row you have hit. The other option is to have this tied to your WA charges, the more stacks you have the more damage you mitigate, making you decide between damage and damage mitigation.

  10. Diffuse magic is fine, maybe make the ability taper down for 10 seconds from 100% to 0% magic damage mitigation, this adds another layer of timing to its usage.

  11. Tiger tail sweep, in addition to its current effect it reduces the cooldown of leg sweep by 0.4 seconds for each chi spent.

  12. Buff the windwalking activatable mentioned above - In addition to its other effect the activate could increase the move speed bonus aura in both potency and range (maybe 10% additional move speed and 5 yards more range). Also apply an immunity to snares, immobilization and root effects for 3 seconds when activated.

  13. Combine celerity and chi torpedo, 3 charges, 20 yard distance, shortened CD, remove movement speed increase.

  14. New talent called “momentum” that improves the movement speed bonus of Windwalk just for the monk, based on distance traveled, increases the maximum charges from 25% to 40% and makes the stacks generate by 2% per stack instead of 1%.

  15. Change tiger’s lust to provide immunity to snares as well and if it successfully removes one, the cool down is halved.

I know there is a lot there but these are just some ideas that I personally would enjoy, although there is also some stuff in there that I think resolves some fundamental Monk/WW issues.

Would love some feedback/thoughts!

Dude every week I come back and have to comment on another WW post for DF thread that is literally just copy paste of the last one. Why can’t you guys jsut wait a few weeks for the talents to come out so we have an idea of what is going on.

Anyways;

Not an awful idea, but a small buff can be pretty nasty depending on how it works. The only one I even remotely agree with is the WW buff, just due to movement speed. The rest can be pretty annoying to balance.

Said this before, treat it like metamorphisis. Celestials as they are, are fine as they are though.

No. This ruins the hybrid that is WW. Healing Spheres was an ability taht worked into the slower playstyle of WW in MOP, but will make playing WW more of a hassle in faster paced games if implemented now.

This is such a random change that is like a wtf? Like why not make Zen Flight a levitate.

Idk why just trying to make an ability that is so grossly hard to balance a thing, when they already struggle with balance as it is. Cool concept? Maybe. But that doesn’t change the dozen issues I can think of on the top of my head.

Why change an ability that isn’t flawed. It’s been lackluster for a few expacs, sure, but that’s due to losing TEB.

For MW, sure. Stance dance is a fun concept, but there really isn’t too much of a reason to turn WW or BrM into a more heavily overpowered self buff spec.

Cool in concept, but I can think of hundreds of ways this would break PVP.

These have literally never been a problem for WW and it’s identity. If anything, they make WW a unique and interesting spec because of them. Is the pet playstyle maybe not the most fun? Sure. But I’d say that’s almost entirely due to other problems that the spec has.

Your changes to Windwalk would be so incredibly overtuned that it’s insane. Current Windwalk is actually extremely balanced as it is.

Or just bring back Hurricane Strikes and remove this god awful ability?

So Tigereye Brew but different. And more broken because you add CDR to a CD spec. Even you have to realize how insane a 50% CDR would be.

Metamorphisis, won’t really touch on this.

Why remove the concept of the ability? It’s unique in the defensive style, just poorly balanced when it’s not 100% health. There’s really no reason to do shields on a WW over redirecting damage. That’s kind of the point of karma. It bites you in the a$$.

Why? Imagine being able to have Chi Torpedo and tiger lust because one is baseline. That’s way too much mobility.

Hit or miss. I hated this in Legion.

Why are you turning your base movement ability into something that has a use outside of its purpose. That just seems overloaded.

OR just don’t;

Not touching on 5, 6.

How to comlpetely break something, yet again.

Or just make it not cost Chi and be on an accessible talent node, so that it’s actually viable, combined with making the damage useful. Doesn’t need to be toggleable if you just revert it to MOP balance style.

But why have 2. Just pick a style and stick with it. Idk why flip flop on your concept here.

no no no no no. This is like the one defensive WW has right now that isn’t complete dog. Do not put restrictions into something that is already limited in its style.

Or keep it as it is, considering that the ability is fine as it is

CDR problems 3.0.

Or don’t touch what isn’t broken.

Or make Celerity viable beca

use it’s not on the same tier as two of the best movement abilities in the game?;

Not touching on 14.

Or just don’t? It’s like the whole concept of having mobility is to use it properly, not to suddenly become mobile Jesus.

I don’t think any of your changes actually solve a single problem Monks or WWs have, because your overhauling a spec into an overloaded spec while also making them extremely reliant on moving for no reason. Literally everything you have said is “Move more and become god.”, which means that you’re more focused on doing something not apart of the gameplay, just to suddenly become hyper Jesus on a 5 second CD.

Idk man lol

Tell me you haven’t mained WW without telling me you haven’t mained WW. Clones probably had the record for being the most bugged ability in this game. Every borrowed power, new feature, trinket, ect seems to require special coding for SEF to work properly. This expansion has been better, but not by much. I think people want it gone for that reason more than identity reasons.

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Hey Seraph,

You seem pretty annoyed with me to begin with so I don’t know if you’ll read this response in the spirit that I am writing it but I’ll take a shot. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to read it and respond. It was no small post which is why I didn’t want to flood an already existing thread and take over a whole page, although I understand why you wish it was all in the same place.

I want address all your comments because I’m not overly committed to some of my ideas and probably agree with some of the things you have critiqued, however I will respond to the ones I disagree with.

So first up, at the beginning I did say, that this is essentially my wish list and that any one of these changes would be great. I very likely would not expect all of it but thought it was worth listing all my ideas for feedback sake, so I probably agree that it would be OP and way too speedy if all were implemented. However, I don’t think that using the numbers provided in the concepts is a worthwhile thing to do, it’s more whether the concepts are worthwhile, it would be easy to dial back percentages or durations where needed, and therefore I think it’s an overreaction to throw out ideas based on the numbers I have provided.

So clones
 clones are a problem. A quick search will show the long list of issues they cause and it’s not a thing of the past, it occurs with every significant change and update and requires a lot of fixing every time. There is a page on Peak of Serenity that has the laundry list of clone bugs
 If we want to talk about tuning and balancing being an issue, this is one of them. Also, I don’t disagree that its unique, but it’s also boring and uninteresting
 you don’t interact of really do anything particularly different with clones, same with Xuen. However the solutions I have offered, although not necessarily tuned or balanced properly (obviously) makes the cooldown way more interactive.

I hear your point with healing spheres and I do get what you mean, its a shame though because that was a truly unique and interactive way to heal.

How the heck is reduced fall damage using roll random
 it makes sense, it would be fun, its thematic and its utility that doesn’t require balancing
 Simple.

Chi Burst is rubbish and thoroughly average to use, I don’t mind if the damage is low, I don’t really care about that, I just want it to feel good pressing that button and it’s a great opportunity to turn something blah, into something that could look amazing and be interesting to use.

if you are saying a double jump breaks PvP then I don’t really know what to say to you when it already exists in the game and we are about to have another class that will also have a jump modifier that will be close to a double jump with the Evokers glide (provides additional altitude and slow fall). Furthermore, this would be harder to use, less versatile and due to the cooldown would not allow for successive wall jumps.

Regarding Windwalk, I disagree. Right now that ability is invisible with only offering 10%. No one in my group has every noticed
 if that is all you knew about this ability it would be enough to change/remove it. There is such a ridiculous abundance of movement that has come into the game since the release of Monks and they have received close to no movement improvements, while other classes have literally received leaps and bounds. In fact, FSK was actually shortened
 For Monks, mobility was a huge part of the fantasy and these days pallies can catch up to me

Addressing the technical aspect, based on the stacks expiring independently and requiring a certain amount of yards to achieve a stack, to obtain maximum movement you would need to run for 4-5 seconds, then if you stood still you would begin losing them in another 3-4 seconds. It likely means that high movement classes will be at 25% while most others will be hovering around 10%. Not that insane to me. if you want to nerf it, just don’t let it stack with other movement effects.

One with the Universe - I don’t disagree that it would be hard to balance, however I think that most fun abilities suffer from that issue. and that its not really a good enough reason to settle for more boring alternatives. I’m not married to the MW and BM functions and would be happy for them to be changed or dropped entirely, I do like the charge up mechanic and the WW release though.

Styles was something that existed well before fistweaving and was quite cool. I like complex gameplay and this certainly would tick that box. I don’t think it would make the class OP and honestly, if we just look at the layers of stuff in SL, I hardly think that this is stepping over the line in shear power.

WDP - yea pretty much agree with you 100% on this one.

Wind Awakening - So yea, you build and spend like TEB but TEB didn’t change how it felt to play when it was active, this would. Ultimately in shear output it would be weaker than TEB but it would actually feel good to use. I don’t know where you got 50% from, its max of 25% which is essentially a 25% damage increase providing you nail that rotation and only lasts 12 seconds with roughly 40 seconds of downtime. So in short, every 52 seconds would include 12 seconds of 25% increased damage.

TOK - I get that and i’m torn on this one too because conceptually I like it, however it causes so many issues for gameplay. TOK causes toxic gameplay and forces those who want to min max to use their main defensive as an offensive ability, which is super rubbish. My suggestion was to have the damage and healing as talent and my version as baseline. Also, once again, my version is more interactive.

On your comment about Lust being baseline and that being too much mobility
 Have you seen what’s in store for DF? So many classes are going to have their cake and eat it when it comes to mobility. So much so that it would be hard to call monks a high mobility class.

With RJW - in reflection, I probably agree but i would still prefer the diablo monk version where duration and potency increased based on critical strikes made while its active.

Xuen Pet - Only reason I put this in is to appease those who think Pets are great
 I would never take this talent unless it was wildy better than the alternatives.

Inner Strength - already has restrictions, I was just changing them


Tiger Tail Sweep - Not really, as the maximum chi that can be spent in a minute (without WA) is 60, which results in a 24 second CD reduction. that’s the ceiling right there. Once again, focus less on the number, and more on the concept. Make it 0.3 if you like.

Anyways dude, my last thoughts: You said don’t fix what isn’t broken but it kind of is
 Monk is the least played class in the game and it is in dire need of some new refreshing ideas and mechanics to reengaged people and automatic abilities like clones and Xuen are boring and ultimately lazy. Also, yes I am trying to make the class faster, because it should be. It’s meant to be a high mobility class and instead they are comparatively ok. As far as the god mode comment, I think that’s more a tuning issue and less a concept issue so it’s not super important to me because there is no way any of us can suggest something that wouldn’t require Blizz to tune and modify. All of my suggestions could be dialled back without a high degree of complexity, the concepts would be what would make it fun, rewarding and refreshed.

Thanks again for the feedback though man, I have definitely rethought some things!

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100%. I have had to literally anticipate glitches / bugs and modify the way i play accordingly to get my class to perform as it should. This ability just causes me pain and isn’t worth the heartache for the Devs or players.
I personally also don’t like that it’s set and forget. If it was like the MoP iteration I would enjoy it much more.

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Don’t worry bro he’s always like that. Is literally hated on the arena fourms

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Yeah bro, literally played this spec as my main since its release! Even still have my MOP character with 2200 enchants on it on my acc!

Clones have never been the problem for WW. Not once has anyone looked at the spec and said “Oh, yeah, SEF is the reason WW isn’t playable”. There are dozens of things every single expac I could list that would take a massive priority over this. Is it buggy, yes. Is it a massive problem for the spec, no.

I’m just going to touch on it; I’m not annoyed with it, I just hate seeing a new thread every week about the same thing when we haven’t even seen the talents to begin with. My big problem with what your whole design theory is that you’re pushing the spec towards a movement based playstyle, which would heavily impact PVP in a negative way, and depending on PVE encounters, could majorly screw WW over. My Biggest problem is the CDR. Every single spec that has CDR built into the game, regardless of expac, has always been problematic for all gameplay styles. Resetting something small, like RSK, on a 10% chance or something is fine. But stacking CDR is ridiculous.

I wouldn’t mind some of the things, e.g. Meta Xuen, or roll having some sort of effect, but you have to be careful how to balance things without knowing what gameplay is going to be like. The spec is already in an atrocious position, and moving it towards a singular playstyle with a lot of changes like these, would make it borderline unplayable, and even more so towards the casual playerbase who don’t understand movement mechanics.

Mad? Must hate that you still can’t beat my alts and then cry murder :wink:

K, if you say so. It’s literally caused entire features to do 55% reduced damage, but never been a problem.

Name one of those other dozen things you know about. I’ll wait. And no, damage tuning doesn’t count. You had to play around this cd being buggy in more than one expansion.

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Seraph is kinda a nutter and just a LFR hero, nothing to write home about.

Dude literally said FSK stuns people.

Then tried to say as a WW you should always break mastery on adds or you don’t know how to play.

And now says SEF is fine
 with no issues
 except that is so buggy us monks have to literally adjust our playstyle around the bugs.

Best to just ignore him and move on.

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I don’t know what cope ur smoking that you ever beat me. But we can Q up the wargame if you want

2 mil gold on it

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Back to the topic though, changes I would love to see in the future are primarily:

I like the other stuff but the above would be tons of fun. Anyone else not a huge fan of Xuen being 1 button press pet?

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hmm, yeah TOK needs to be front facing are the thing I hate. Anyway whos this LFR hero anyway?

The Acrobatics thing sounds fun, but Blizzard would have to go back through every surface in the game in order to make sure they are coded as jump/slide surfaces.

SërÀph never has anything positive to say.

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I wonder if they could code it so that it worked based on hard body object proximity and therefore wouldn’t need to re-code surfaces provided they are already solid barriers. Anyways, would be hella fun!

ToK is annoying for a bunch of reasons
 Especially when compared to Shield of Vengeance, lol.
Ideally I wish they would separate the damage element into a talent and leave the base version as a more user friendly but interactive defensive. Could even make it consume Chi and have it interact differently depending on how much chi was spent like the old Chi Explosion (min of 20% shield @ 0 Chi).