Actually it’s not like you forget range, it’s more each spell should have it’s own range.
Lets say living flame would be 40y, but echo 30, VE 40, firebreath 25, etc
Or they could allow us to passively cast on the move instead of needing to hover.
Or reduce the range of all casters to 30 like in classic and reduce the number of gap clouser of the melees.
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hunters were the main reason last season i mained devoker on my evoker and not healing. ide have the whole group nice and grouped up because other ranged classes understood that prevokers have a range issue but then heres comes the smooth brain hunters who have to stand max range from the healer not even the boss. and every time i rescue him into healing range with everyone else they would run off again. but its my fault when i dont heal him because hes out of range so i prioritize the rest of the group. i went with my shadow priest this season and because im so use to my evoker im already standing in near melee range on my priest so if i do get a prevoker healing he doesnt even need to worry about me.
idk about this season since theres only 1 devoker in my raid group and i dont see to many in keys but when i was playing mine it felt more like just glass without the cannon part. the damage never felt over the top enough to call them a class cannon just super fragile
i dont think they will ever let evokers cast while moving since that would be to massive of a qol improvement but if enough people complain long enough im hopeful blizzard will atleast fix the range or nerf the range on some other specs to drag them into this stupid mid range idea they have
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I still don’t understand why they thought a “dragon” class in a “dragon” race should be glass cannon, especially with such a short range, I would understand the range if we were tough enough or had enough CC to tolerate it but it’s not the case, I just do not get it.
You literally just chain one after the other. There is no timing besides not going AFK after pressing Upheaval. And it is absolutely point and click if you’re using an @cursor macro like you should be. And even if you aren’t, instead of vaguely having your cursor in the area of your target you also click your cursor after pressing the button. Skill is still zero. Failure conditions are still zero.
Mages aren’t Evokers. They aren’t balanced around our range. Every class has different restrictions to deal with and tools to deal with them. We have shorter range and the tools to make that work. Maybe our toolkit isn’t completely perfected after being live for a single patch, but that is a balancing issue rather than a design one.
You don’t have to like the range of the class, but you can’t present it as a design flaw when it is not. Not every class or spec has to appeal to you. If you don’t like fundamental, core aspects of a spec the answer is to play a different one.
yea dragon class and dragon race but we lack the toughness of dragons and how over the top strong they are. the tank buff auvokers get really show just how squishy the class is with how much of a change it makes
Except it clearly doesn’t. Evoker rep, despite being the newest class, is absolutely in the toilet. No one wants them in PvP outside of attempts at the one-shot gimmicks Blizzard swiftly nerfed. They are an absolute headache in raids and while Preservation had a brief run at being popular in M+, even that has fallen away.
I’ve been saying this since Alpha. Myself and many others. Evokers are forced to play by all the rules of a ranged class such as as dealing with cast times, low defensives and less access to elements like stuns. But at the same time they are forced in to knife fighting range in order to do anything. Nothing, in either spec, makes up for this penalty in any meaningful way. It is an arbitrary limit for the sake of an arbitrary limit because despite their limited areas of operation, do not have superior damage or mobility and sure as hell do not have superior defensive capability.
Why? If anything, Preservation by all reasonable logic SHOULD have superior healing output as compensation for the crippled range. It doesn’t though. It was outtrumped by Resto Druids early in DF and have been eclipsed by other specs ever since. None of which pay a single yard of their full and proper range for this status.
And where is the pay off for this shortcoming? If a class is forced to play at a literal handicap compared to each and every spec/class of its type, there should be some sort of balance to the equation. With Evoker of either spec, there is none whatsoever. There isn’t a single aspect of Evoker that is not surpassed by another full ranged healer or ranged DPS spec. That isn’t a “skill floor”. That is playing with an arbitrary penalty.
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Yup, this. Until these people who blather on about “skill expression” and “balanced around our range” actually back up their words with an objective list of benefits and drawbacks that…you know, justify the disadvantage, they are easily dismissed as either trolling, or both ignorant and stupid regarding basic game design.
The problem isnt that the range is short. The problem is that currently there is no REASON for it to be short. That is a real problem that needs to be fixed.
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As someone who desperately is trying to make evoker work and enjoy the spec, the range disadvantage in pvp is AWFUL! It feels as though I can never get away truly from melee. And with casters, I can never actually catch them to dps if they’re good.
Don’t get me wrong. there are plenty of times where I can damage into my targets. But if they’re good, I’ll be kited to no end just trying either get way or get to them while they enjoy their safety of an extra 15 yds on me or never-ending mobility (ahem warriors ahem).
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Nah they are fine
gnome visage when
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My issue is that a lot of the problems have been known since beta and nothing really happened.
Especially the struggle in PvP with such limitations and lack of tools to help.
I understand if these issues were new, recently brought up, but a lot has been said since as early as August last year.
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and then they gave everything we ever asked for, except 40 yard range, to augmentation
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Yes, thank you, I have both
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“Yeah I fail to see the reward or balance design for evoker to be 25 yd range.”
Hah of course you don’t, because it doesn’t exist. Anyone who claims it does is either a complete fool or a bold faced liar, probably both.
Since the launch of the class, no one, including blizzard, has backed up this idea.
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Yeah I mean I don’t think many (sane) people have made the case that there’s a valid tradeoff for the reduced range. Most have just argued that it isn’t a limiting factor to the point where it warrants so much crying.
The fair caveat, though, is that I 100% sympathize with PvP’ers, as the limitations and penalty are far more relevant there. They clearly haven’t cared about PvP in a long time though, to be fair, and this class is blatant proof of that.
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Certain spells need to be changed to always be castable on the move like Living Flame.
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This is just the generic skill of managing your CDs. It has nothing to do with Seismic Slam.
The window between finishing the Upheaval cast and loosing the Landslide cast is like microseconds long.
Then we must have been an easy winner of the “Worst Spec in the Game” category, right? If Devastation is just a normal spec that happens to be randomly hamstrung by being mid-range, we must have been at the bottom of the performance metrics in every type of content, no?
Except we weren’t. Devastation has been a middling spec so far, even in PvP where it is the worst, relatively speaking. Just because you’re too obstinate to see it doesn’t mean we haven’t been compensated for our range. If we hadn’t been our holistic performance would not be middling. Comparing individual abilities is asinine and not how balance works.
Not liking this design is a valid opinion. Calling it broken is not, and since it isn’t broken it’s also highly unlikely that it’s going anywhere. Your time would be better spent offering feedback on specific paint points you are having, rather than trying to get a core and functional aspect of the entire class changed.
I have, and at every turn, because the core design of the spec is fully coherent. Our range + Disintegrate + Hover is a rock-solid base, and so far has worked out quite well. It still needs fine-tuning but it doesn’t need a fundamental redesign. Devastation didn’t break new ground with this kit design either: it borrows its skeleton from proven designs from other games.
I am primarily a PvP player. Certainly PvP is where the spec is weakest, but as with everywhere else there is no actual issue with our range on a fundamental level; the spec working is just a matter of balance. As I said previously, even in PvP the spec has yet to be bottom-of-the-barrel. It has been middling pretty much this whole time.
I really think Living Flame could be the one time they could allow it. The cast timer is so long on it anyone could interrupt it if they have more than 2 brain cells firing. I know that is the main reason they don’t allow people to spam powers on the move. Just ignore fire mages and Scorch.
Scorch: 1% Base Mana, 1.5 sec cast, 40 yard range
Living Flame: 2% Base Mana, 2 sec cast, 25 yard range
Personally I don’t see why that can’t be a move and cast spell without Hover.
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“WoW has designed their game for a 40-yard range for casters and healers.”
Exactly. To argue otherwise is denial of objective reality, and anyone doing that has no place in a discussion.
The issue isn’t that the range is short, like I said before. The problem is that not only is it a drawback with no benefit, but it’s also detrimental to any party/raid you join as compared to any other ranged dps or healer.
Do you make it super duper difficult or screw everyone over? Nah. But the question remains unanswered:
Why do Evokers have significantly lower range than any other character that can fit their role? Where is the logical reasoning?
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