This is what ive been preaching lately. Everyone keeps pointing fingers at everyone else while claiming their class is the weak one.
Its all broken and dumb. Too much mobility, cc, self healing, amd damage.
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No you are not. You are less tanky and less mobile than a monk maybe.
From before monks rogues had evasion, vanshish, shadow cloak and there various forms of cc to keep them alive with 1 shadow step and sprint. Feint didnt reduce damage only reduced threat.
Now you have all that, feint reduces damage by 20%, percentage based self heal on moderate to short cd, potentually 2 shadow steps, vanashes, access to get big leech, heal from slice and dice (which is also much easier to maintain) and heal when vanishing and using shadow dance (can get 2 of these but not all three iirc), more cc/disruptive abillities to controll fights.
Rogue is supposed to be a control based, backloaded burst character that has low self sustain. Now rogue has everything.
Yes we have all that and yet we are the squishiest class in the game with the least amount of damage.
Hereâs something worth reading:
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/13qm038/season_2_meta_analysis_or_an_attempt_at_it/
If you want more mobility then give up your range and immunity shields, remove ice block, auto slows, and cut your range to 25 yds. Youâll be begging for that range back in BGs I guarantee it, thereâs a reason devokers need immunity, which BTW isnât all the time.
Mages have far higher representation than evokers, even with healing spec
https://www.pvpleaderboard.com/statistics/all/all/2200#class
That was an interesting read. You know what i saw in all those charts and his discriptions of them? That rogue has a high level of skill requirement due to have high âfinesseâ while also having the absolute best cc/disruption of all classes.
Damage wise was taken in a 3v3 arena setting against all targets. So of course a rogue will have lower damage on these charts.
Otherwise it has moderate single target burst, low aoe dps, moderate ellusiveness, low self sustain, moderate burst sustain and maximum control.
This is exactly what rogues have always been and they have more tools now than before monks existed. Yet they always tend to flurish in 2s and 3s despite your complaints of being âthe squishiestâ yet having tons of tools to prolong fights in order to find an advantage.
âAre we a joke to you?â -DKs
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You need to look at those charts again.
Rogue sustain damage (Pressure) is crap. 3 of the bottom 6 specs.
Rogue burst damage is crap. Again 3 of the bottom 6 specs
Rogue effective healing, yep, itâs crap too. All 3 specs in the bottom half
At least 1 rogue spec is at the bottom of these 3 categories.
Rogue burst healing. Still crap. 3 of the bottom 5 and they are so pathetic, they barely register.
Rogue control. Yea, we get to be stun bots for the stronger dps specs. To be fair, this category doesnât include slows, snares, knock backs, etc. These types off cc are just as valuable as a stun and EVERY spec has a plethora of these.
Rogue elusiveness. Depends on how you analyze this. Smaller numbers are better since youâre taking less damage. As rogue, I view this as one of two things. You spend a fair amount time in stealth or youâre dead. Either way youâre not doing damage. Which leads us back to the pathetic damage numbers.
Not entirely accurate. The âGreat Pruningâ of BfA did a whack job on rogues. Prior to that, rogues had a base kit that allowed more survivabilty. BfA took those tools and either eliminated them or redistributed them among each spec. Each rogue spec was left with a weaker version of itself.
The crucial part of this is rogue survivability was built around AVOIDING damage. Unlike all other classes that MITIGATE damage via various means of reducing it. Blizzard as failed rogues in this regard and the devs donât seem to understand this.
https:// check-pvp .fr/stats?bracket=rbg&rating=1800
Sub rogues are doing decent in 2s/3s/RBGs. Kind of meh in solo shuffle until the higher ratings.
And they took away the sap n cap capability for the most part. The game is not the same anymore. Sub Rogues seem strong again in random bgs though I noticed.
The article I linked is based on recent 3v3 data.
From the article.
I analysed over 3,000 (3,262 to be exact) 3v3 matches (again, thanks u/atinylittleshell and u/armsperson), all played above 1.8k and between May 11-23 â so DF S2 so far. Note that these are not shuffle games, but arguably 3s enables specs more to play to their strengths, queuing with other specs that accentuate what they bring to the table. I parsed each log file and extracted the following metrics from them.
Note the bold comment. This is why Subtlety Rogues are well represented. They have a lot of cc. As is presented in the article, that is their strength and they play to it. Rogues bring cc to the table and thatâs all.
Look at the charts and try to understand the WHOLE picture that is being presented. I found it to be really informative. The graphs back up what Iâm experiencing as a rogue.
This is mostly because of Secret Techniques + Cold Blood. Itâs a one trick pony and if you get ccâd during the Shadow Dance you end up hanging out with the Spirit Healer.
I suspect this will get nerfed with in the next few weeks.
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Blood DK Tank = wheelchair FC
If you turn up the sound FX, you can literally hear the squeek of the wheels
True. However they are also well represented in rated Bgs as well not just 3s. I suppose it could be just for the CC there as well.
Yes, and then once melee catch us after our 2 charges of hover we die like a sack of potatoes.
So your base arguement is the same as hunters. They are designed around avoiding damage (this is also my point, it is how they are designed).
That didint go anywhere. Its still what rogues and hunters do.
The problem is that the overall damage on pvp is outragous across the board.
Its not that hunters/rogues suck in general.
Iâll take your word for it. I donât play a hunter but it makes sense. But hunters do have range. Thatâs one the best forms of avoidance there is. You also have a lot mobility and cc that help maintain that range.
PvP, good PvP, is balanced around three things: Damage - Survivability - Mobility
A strong spec will excel in two of these. an OP spec excels in all three. A weak spec might excel in one. To your point (and mine), currently the stronger specs are excelling in Damage and Survivability (rogues lacking both). They live long enough to crank out the damage.
The problem with rogues is we donât really excel at any of them. Sure we have the stuns and that falls under Survivability. So I can stun you for 10 seconds. Then what? My damage isnât enough to score the kill. When your buddies show up, Iâm dead within 3 globals.
Maybe we donât suck, but it sure feels bad.
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question; which hunter spec is generally doing the highest DPS atm?
Ide say sv. It cranks.
After that its either bm for constant damage or mm for burst damage.
thanks! brb forming 6 MM Hunter RBG
Dont forget your boomkins for aoe