Can confirm, Frost Trap doesn’t work. Can also confirm Hamstring doesn’t work. It’s coded on the mob to be immune to slows after about 15 seconds or so of combat, not just Blizzard.
I mean, aside from your backhand at Blizzard, I’d agree, only if we can make a small change; what they should have done is nerf lower ranks of Blizzard.
I interpret this as “Blizz negatively impacting the social aspect of the game”. Who cares if people get help doing leveling content from friends or strangers? Leveling to 70 isn’t a race, and the way social communities are in game these days, be happy anyone is being nice enough to help. Felt like this time around leveling a new toon, that there are less chances of getting groups to do a leveling dungeon that is 3years old (wow classic is old already!). When content is that old, Ill gladly take a booster as opposed to not being able to experience dungeon content at all until outlands.
Well that’s stupid. This nerf should have been targeted at Blizzard, specifically. Lazy implementation by Blizz, not that I’m remotely surprised by that.
Edit: I’ve done about six heroics in the past two days without issue. The only thing I’ve noticed is the third boss of H MgT I used to stand on a ledge to put DoTs out without the mobs bum-rushing me. Yesterday, I got teleported to the middle of the pull. Got spicy. That’s the only change I’ve seen, personally. Six dungeons and no issues. Not sure how these botting changes have suddenly ruined everyone’s dungeon runs.
Wrong. It may be helpful if you actually read the OP. The mobs pulled two other mobs so it was an extended pull. The correct play, which is why it was a skill issue, it to kill the mobs that are running first, before they pull more.
It’s a lesson in mob priority.
You’ve yet to prove anything to be detrimental. You not liking something =/= detrimental.
3 levels? 66 ramparts is way more than 3. Consider your new level ranges around these changes and plan accordingly.
thats in game friends boosting eachother instead of RMT boosting that is why i said they should just put in RDF to kill the RMT boosting and still allows guildies to help eachother farm out lower dungeons alot easier and to not hurt legit players farming for items or BOE twink gear.
Would it be beneficial if I told you I was in the group? You misunderstanding, or misrepresenting what you’re reading doesn’t make it less accurate; that is a description of what happened, step by step. It’s called explaining your position.
I mean, we can argue definitions; my assertion was that the first pull was no longer than 3 Flamestrike casts and 1 Blizzard. That’s less than 15 seconds.
Sure, but now that’s the only option. Which wasn’t up for debate, nor is it a skill issue when mobs are immune to slow after the first cast of Blizzard, which any reasonable person wouldn’t expect. Lesson learned, sure, but 1 cast of Blizzard and mobs are immune to all slows/snares? You’re not even going to acknowledge that?
A level 39 helping a level 31 is now detrimental to both; whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. Again, a level 60 helping a level 31 falls into the range of boosting, but 39? That’s same zone level differences… STV for example.
There are level 60-63 mobs in Ramparts. 66-63=3. That impacting everyone’s experience by 90% though? Come on.
No. I could easily say that I was in the group too.
And this is relevant how?
1 cast of Blizzard after how many hardcasted flamestrikes?
Again, the word “detrimental” here doesn’t mean what you think it means. Something being less efficient for your min/max goals isn’t detrimental.
Right, so why would a level 66, 3 above the highest mob level in there, go to a ramps run?
I’m not sure this is relevant to the conversation at hand; we’re not talking about Heroics, nor are we discussing max level characters doing max level dungeons.
Nor did the thread say it ruined everyone’s dungeon runs. It gave an example of things that are now in game that affect leveling groups, leveling dungeons, and lower level players. Specifically from a low population server perspective.
Again, I haven’t run BM since the changes, but I imagine the ‘pull the trash in front of the portal and AoE it down’ method probably no longer works considering the HoJ like stun non-elite mobs have reportedly received in there now.
people help each other at different levels. so you expect ppl to be the same level as everyone in a group you try to tell ppl how to play their toons a specific way. this patch is trash no matter how you put it. everyone wants to play their own way this patch is a perfect example of why they should just put in RDF if they want to really get rid of boosters. you definitely play a toon fit for your personality.
A simple level cap and/or lockout for each 5 man N would be much smoother than tweaking abilities and mechanics.
How can Blizz (allegedly) have a staff full of WoW players but continually overlook the problems their solutions are going to create as well as simpler ideas that would work better?
You could, but you’d be lying, I wouldn’t be. 
Considering the changes were made to combat boosting; which means extended pulls of 5-10 minutes or so, 15 seconds seems a little low to hit that threshold. Less seems even worse.
If that’s how it is, that’s fine, but then why would mobs be able to be snared at all? Then let’s build on that; why would players have abilities that snare at all?
I’m sorry, I missed the part where Flamestrike has a slow/snare effect… Meaning it’s either the timing, which is set entirely too low, or it’s the DR of a single tick of slow, which is also too low.
I love when trolls on the forums are like “THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT!”… it is harmful; ergo, detrimental. It hurts both players to help one another; there is less incentive for either player to even acknowledge the other exists.
Well, and thank you for proving my other point, to be helpful. Again, that’s 3 levels past due as it were, but it nerfs the EXP for all parties involved by 90%. That’s not boosting, that’s simply being helpful. You’re not going to go into Ramps and 1 shot everything, or pull 5 packs of mobs and ice them like it’s nothing as a 66, are you?
Cyo was my tank in Ramps so he was in the group. Unless you were the boosted ret paladin, you were not in our group. That paladin was the only person to message me over 30 minutes of advertising for 1 dps, btw. This may not be an issues on larger pop servers, but a server of 300 (prior to one of the top guilds of 40+ members leaving yesterday) our server does not have the luxury of instantly filling and we have to take what we can get.
Please reread the scenario if you want to know what I opened with in this example (one of the FS’s was PoM’d).
Right, and why is your made up story any more true than mine? Do you have proof?
According to who? The changes were made to combat degenerate play of all different types. And yes, Blizzard deems AOEing/Mass slowing mob packs to be degenerate play.
Too low for who? For players that should be doing other content more appropriate for their skill levels?
It doesn’t though. You still gain EXP. How is that harmful?
And are they not being helpful by helping them finish quests, get materials, and good level up gear?
You’re stuck in a mindset of EXP min/max and that’s just not how Blizzard wants people to play the game.
According to Blizzard. Fool.
You’re right. All leveling dungeon pulls should be started and completed within 5 seconds. Git gud or get out.
Sure. Sure. Good luck with that method of thinking.
Sure, that’s the only reason people want to run dungeons, amirite?
No. I’m stuck in the idea that helping someone 3 levels lower than me is actually hurting both of us, and we’d be better off doing solo content in a MMORPG, which revolves around social gatherings. I like how you keep equating my argument to min/max standards; when that’s not what I’ve said at all. Strawman gotta Strawman I guess. If anything, you’re talking about min/max standards when it comes to pull times and content players should be doing.
Then again, I’m not being completely and utterly socially inept, on the forums on a level 11 hunter, trying to “win the internet”.
You tanked for him on an alliance shaman?
Where did they say that these changes were made only to combat boosting? Please, cite it.
*All slowing should be done within 5 seconds, and after that, adapt your gameplay to killing priority mobs instead of mindless AOE slows.
The reason you can’t explain to me why it’s harmful is because it isn’t harmful.
No – if you have other goals, tailor your group to those specific goals. Not a really hard concept. And yes, that is apart of MMORPG gameplay.
Not hurting. Just not maximizing your EXP. There’s a difference.
Would you? I’m not so sure of that. Solo content doesn’t give insane loot, mats, and dungeon quest EXP.
It’s what you’ve been saying this entire time.
And there is it. Your arguments couldn’t keep up, and so you resort to the ad hominem.
Oh, the changes that were implemented at the request of awful players punish players who are actually competent at the game? You don’t say.
You only play a level 11 Troll Hunter?
" Blizzard
One of the most common pieces of feedback we’ve received (and observed ourselves in our own adventures) is the concern about pervasive sales of dungeon boosting services in-game. It often overpowers chat with advertisements and makes certain channels hard to use for their intended purpose.
It’s also no secret that the gold from many boosting groups is used for illicit activities such as Real-Money Trading (RMT), as much of the gold that players pay to boosters is then sold for real money back to other players.
Now that we’ve seen the final major content release of Burning Crusade Classic, we will soon adjust the behavior of creatures in most dungeons (including the new dungeons coming in Wrath of the Lich King Classic) to make it significantly more difficult to endlessly snare and kite enemies. Additionally, we will implement a reduction to group XP earned when there is large disparity between player levels in the same group."
Blizzard Reducing Efficiency of Boosting Groups in BC and Wrath Classic Dungeons Soon - Wowhead News
Logically, the opposite would be true, right? Mob runs away, you should be able to slow it, no? No no no, you’re right, you should slow mobs before they get to the tank. Min/max.
If you don’t see it as harmful, that’s you denying reality. Sure, the concept of leveling isn’t just to get to max level, but having a friend help you kill some mobs that are 3 level lower than them is harmful, to both players, as it’s counter intuitive to actually leveling up at all.
Again, this is from a lower population server perspective. Not everybody plays on high pop servers. Mostly to avoid people like you.
There’s a difference between maximizing EXP and completely gutting it though, right? 3 levels, 90% difference. I know, it’s a hard concept, but not everything is about min/max’ing.
Nor would it if there was a 5 level difference between the highest and lowest player in the dungeon. Thanks for coming out.
Strawman, oh how easy you are to dismantle…
Nah, just calling out a troll for trolling. That’s just an insult though, not my argument, nor my position. Good talk.
No – still isn’t proof of you being in the group outside of the OP’s word.
So, you’ve linked me ONE of their targets in these changes. But nowhere in this entire quote does it mention anything about that being the only target. Would you like to try a different quote?
Wait, are you asking for realism? In a fantasy game? Oh my goodness, this is the wrong genre for you.
If anything, I could argue that the mobs are so scared of dying that you can’t slow them. Nothing can slow their instinctual adrenaline.
No, it’s you not understanding what the word “harmful” means.
Again, if you don’t like the gameplay of lower population servers, don’t play on them.
Ad hominem number two.
It’s not completely gutted. You still get EXP, by your own admission. Just not as much as you’d personally like.
Can you rephrase this? I honestly have no idea what you’re attempting to communicate here.
You may want to add the word “Strawman” to your review list, along with detrimental and harmful.
Right, I’m sure it’ll convince Blizzard.
It’s gonna be fine. The blacksmithing mats will go down once the bots/gold farmers start farming in open world again. Don’t lose hope!
Well written post OP. I have been very much in favor of all of the recent changes but if what you are saying is true, I’m not so sure. If the new mechanics are impacting a non-boost group’s ability to do reasonable CC then its an untenable situation. Unsettling for sure.
As far as the group levels and XP go, I agree with the premise that no group of level appropriate players should be punished for grouping in level appropriate dungeons. The situation you described in SM seems…wrong.
I think the intentions of the changes were good and worth continuing to pursue but if honest players are impacted as you describe then yeah, Blizz needs to take a second pass at it.
Also OP, do yourself a favor and put Bloomsday on ignore. I really wish I couldn’t see when it was quoted in other’s posts. Seriously man, if the topic was “In a twisted marketing campaign for its upcoming Wrath of the Lich King Classic release, Blizzard plans to dump bubonic plague into New York City water supply” I absolutely guarantee that one would say something like “If you’re too lazy to not install a water filter then you deserve to be infected…and its not like you can’t get antibiotics”. Really, just ignore it.