If PVP burst effeteness was nerfed and sustained damage buffed across all PVP wouldn’t hunters trading off less burst for more sustained damage be an over good thing in PVP or sneaky aimed shot really going to break the spec? Isn’t it also better they moved steady focus into that spot so MM is not forced to take it to get trueshot if we opt of volley? I think we have to play the changes to PVP overall to really tell if MM has been buffed or nerfed.
You do understand that the spec is effectively hot garbage to play in PvE now, all because of PvPers, right?
Maybe sit this one out.
1 Like
right, i dont even pvp. and this spec is going to be pathetic in pve. this effectively puts all 3 hunter specs at half and below all other specs. meanwhile all 3 rogue specs are top 5 pretty much.
this feels horrible bro. i hate it so much
Its not going to change the damage that much to put it out there, but playing MM is about to be pretty wildly bad now that we are forced into SF for even AoE.
Thank the PvPers for delivering us this wildly stupid change, it was their fault we got it.
1 Like
Is a 10% overall damage trade off really that big of a deal for a free aimed shot every 60 seconds? Trick shot still cleaving hard, 10% harder even now maybe? Not sure on the math yet. I feel like hunters biggest problem in PVE is having to be babysat by healers in high unavoidable damage situations.
It isnt about damage, its about how the class plays. SF is terrible, period.
Like i said, sit this one out. You ruined enough already by focusing on the dumbest part of WoW.
1 Like
i think its both, both the dmg and playstyle is horrible now. god i hate steady focus. i hate double tap too.
3 Likes
You are not offering anything constructive to this conversation. I understand you are mad but I don’t need to sit this one out thanks. Being condescending doesn’t make you look like you know what you’re talking about.
4 Likes
I am pretty mad because once again a largely PvP issue came in and hurt PvE gameplay big time.
I sincerely dont care what you think. You have all of 0 keys over 16, so its clear as day you wouldnt have any idea about anything. So why do you feel the need to open your mouth when youve not done anything remotely close to what I have been doing?
This was done entirely because of PvP, so whats there to be constructive about? MM is entirely gutted in PvP and I could care less. Go reroll into a different class so that you all can ruin that next.
1 Like
We did not ruin anything you dunce. We played what Blizz developed for us. Maybe you should sit this one out since you’re so salty. We lost a lot too with this awful change.
12 Likes
How do you know they didn’t remove it because it was hard to balance and didnt want to keep doing it going forward? You assume a lot of things you dont have any data to back up. Having done keys over 16 doesn’t mean you can do math.
1 Like
Also I stand by my theory that they nerfed it for pve, they don’t like the burst of MM. As Tosan said, they don’t really dissapear stuff for pvp, they nerf it, like they did with double tap for aimed shot at the beginning of sl. Its just blizz not saying anything so that we will fight each other blaming pvp or pve.
3 Likes
This. They’ve applied a PvP-only nerf to DT before. If it was only a problem in PvP they would’ve done that again.
4 Likes
The fact that our DPS sims relatively the same proves this theory entirely wrong, straight up.
You clearly dont understand the problem, hands down.
I’m not a pver, but I did some pve in shadowlands, m+ mostly, and DT+RF with trick shots was awesome, very satisfying and strong, and that kind of stuff can’t really be measured with parses and what not, as far as I know, correct me if I’m wrong. I read also that ptr testers were saying that you pick steady shots talents and the dps is the same with that 10% cd reduction to both AS and RF, which is essentially the damage of one double tap for that 1min cd. Now, that is consistent dps, not burst which will vary depending on the boss and in M+ is stronger as I recall.
In the end, both explanations make sense, the ability is toxic for pvp I’ve said this many times, perhaps not that much arena but other pvp content, yes. They also can make changes for pvp only. Why remove the ability, if you can simply nerf it in pvp? Why remove the ability if the parses are the same with the 10% cd reduction? Makes no sense, either way, they saying nothing pretty much creates this situation where we’re blaming each other instead of asking them why?
1 Like
Ill admit ive been unreasonable and state that my frustration comes from the fact that Blizzard constantly making these very bad decisions again and again, and thats ultimately the problem at the end of the day. They didnt play test any of this crap and everybody has been saying since day one steady focus is pure garbage in M+, because of how it plays. Casting it each and every single pack is beyond miserable gameplay, even if the math adds up in the end, and especially because there are a ton of other classes that dont need to waste two GCDs on a crappy ability before they can get rolling.
DT wasnt the biggest offender here, it wasnt even the biggest part of our rotation, the real nerf came from the wildly senseless reshuffling of talents and forcing us into something that plays like crap or something that is worthless and a damage nerf. Either way, we lose big time here.
3 Likes
There is no point to think about it. Double tap was only a issue in casual BGS or against new players that dont understand the game.
Trying to find reason in blizzards decision is pointless because removing it without making any other change or without any notes on it just shows where they are at.
I don’t get your logic OP.
Burst damage is always more valuable than sustained damage in PvP because you are generally going against intelligent players who will pop defensive cooldowns or heals when they are threatened. Threatening them slower gives them more time to react and more time to space out their defensive cooldowns.
Burst on the other hand can catch them off guard and kill them before they react or at minimum burn defensive cooldowns early so you can finish them off later.
On some classes you could make the argument that they have lots of sustain and therefore don’t need burst to successful kill targets, but how can you make the argument about hunters. Their defensive strategy is basically try not to get targeted because you have little ability to reduce damage, a bunch of annoying soft CC and 1 terrible heal to offset damage taken. You’re not killing anything in a straight 1v1 sustained damage trade.
5 Likes
As a PvE player, I do miss double tap (slightly). However, the main issue here is the talent tree changes overall. There would be wayyyy less of an issue here if they just swapped double tap with whatever and kept the tree the same.
Also I think there’s a ton of PvE players complaining about this to PvP players, so there’s probably quite a bit of mixup there. I’m sorry you had to deal with that person being so condescending towards you.
1 Like
I don’t get the hate by pve players toward pvp players. As if we secretly told Blizz to gut things. Blizz created the issue and is solely responsible for fixing. There’s plenty of specs in wow that have pve and pvp coexist just fine. This is purely a dog 
attempt by Blizz (as usual) to make mm better. And by better I mean worse.
3 Likes