I am having issues on what to decide for my main pve/pvp spec at 60. I have heard bad things about survival unless you get enough agility but it sounds interesting to me.
0/31/20 mm/surv was always considered superior for pvp
I am also interested in a hybrid mm/surv pvp/pve spec however. I may tinker around with talent calculators to see what I can come up with
If it sounds interesting to you, then do it.
Generally, at the currently available gear levels, in a perfect situation in PVE, MM will do slightly more DPS. But who cares? This is Classic, not Retail M+20 race-to-the-finish. Go with what’s more fun and play it well, and you’ll always be a valuable group member.
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0/31/20 for raiding and PvP until you are BWL+ geared. Once your agility reaches a certain threshold (and I forget the number), speccing heavy survival for Lightning Reflexes becomes better.
Both are good for PvP.
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I’m most likely gonna try both out and see what style I like better. I haven’t respec yet so it should be cheap.
20/31/0 is the cookie cutter raiding spec. 2/31/18 if you need the 3% hit from survival talents.
Lightning Reflexes never beats 20/31/0 in terms of dps unless another hunter is providing you with Trueshot Aura, which won’t happen since that hunter will be in the melee group.
Stick to MM, it’s not only better for your own dps, it also buffs your melees.
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This is just flat out wrong.
Pets do nothing in raids except die, they do little to no damage and best left on dismiss.
The 5 points in Survival for Beast/Humanoid slaying is better than 20 points in BM could ever hope to be.
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Just because you’re incapable of microing your pet correctly doesn’t mean others aren’t capable of it. Your pet is 15-20% of your dps.
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Both of you are correct actually
his build geared towards pets can do more, if you micro your pet a LOT during fights, which some hunters did do.
However, a majority of hunters had issues with that, as it was a lot to keep track of and required a lot of effort, going survival was usually the better option as it still gave a ton of DPS and made it so you could focus more on what was going on in the fight without managing your pet as much. Even with all of that focus on your pet, it would still die in some fights which would cause a massive loss in dps in the BM/MM spec.
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I can macro my pet just fine, that doesn’t stop him from dying in 2 stomps to a Molten Giant. If your pet is 15-20% of your DPS in a raid, you have terrible rotation management.
Stomps do 800-900 damage. Your pet should have 3k+ hp, ~4k if it’s getting buffed by gift of the wild+prayer of fortitude (which it should). On top of that, Molten Giants barely get to stomp before dying, and you’re playing horde, which means Chain Heal is going to be spammed and should usually keep your pet up on these trash packs.
Most bosses aren’t an issue either, as long as your tank is moving the boss out of the aoe and as long as you are also moving your pet out of the aoe because the godawful pet AI likes to keep standing on the same spot. And again, you get Chain Heal.
My rotation’s just fine, by the way. Hell, you can look at any top parses on WCL and see that their pets are an even larger percent of their damage than mine. I guess that must mean that they, too, have terrible “rotation management”.
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Right now I’m on track for a 20/31/0 build but man some of the stuff in the survival tree is tempting.
Entrapment looks awesome. And picking up the extra 3% hit for now would help reaching hit cap.
If I just went the lazy route and used a wolf that just stands next to me spamming howl in dungeons/raids. Would I really be gimping myself massively with a 0/31/20 build?
I use frost trap a lot in dungeons and freezing trap in open world so them getting buffed would be nice. And entrapment and imp wing clip would help getting away from melee since fd/trap just does not seem to be possible at this time.
Do whatever want, I’ve never lost on the meters to a BM hunter, they are ALWAYS bottom of the pile. You pet takes an unlucky crit and you lost 20% or more of your DPS, then you gotta rez and feed and drink before you’re ready to fight again, meanwhile the raid is halfway through the next pull.
Pets also don’t get any +hit and miss and glancing all the time on raid content. Their DPS is marginal and easily replaced with Monster Slaying.
Not to mention how vastly superior 0/31/20 is for PvP with Survivalist, which is helpful in raids as well, more HP is always good.
Any more than 2 points at most in the BM tree is a total waste of talent points.
Its fine if all you intend to run are dungeons though, pets rock in dungeons.
Lets go look at those logs…
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Attempting to find this evidence at WCL, they don’t seem to parse out pet data, just combine all hunter damage together, unless I’m missing something, you have a link?
You’re raiding with bad hunters. 20/31/0 is also obviously not the same as 31/20/0.
How is your pet even getting crit in the first place? Are you playing with tanks that don’t know even how to press buttons? Are you sending your pet to pull mobs? Just about every source of damage in raids is periodical, AoE damage. It can’t even crit.
And even with all that glancing and missing, they still manage to get a good chunk of your damage. Monster Slaying is also pretty irrelevant in MC since it only helps against giants/beasts, and most mobs+bosses you’re fighting are elementals or humanoids. And it’s not like 17/31/3 isn’t a thing either.
The best talent in the BM tree is in the first row. Imp aoth is a massive dps boost whenever it procs, the issue is that it rarely does.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com
Here’s an example:
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ThncMJ9g8NHAPb2y#fight=53&type=damage-done
Mouseover on any hunter’s damage.
Role tauren for the shortening of the dead zone, and swap between melee and ranged as they have separate timers. Really cool gameplay. Had a hunter in my group once that would pull a target to tank and would melee and range at the same time.
How about a complete MC run parse instead of the easiest tank and spank fight in the raid? Golemagg is a fight pets can be easily used, this is true, but I’m talking about the raid as a whole.
Whats the pet damage on Firewalkers? I’m gonna guess its super low.
Pretty sure Chain Heal doesn’t hit pets unless every possible player target is full HP.
First you were claiming that pets didn’t do this much damage, then you started claiming that pets just die on bosses that aren’t as “tank-n-spank” as Golemagg.
Even on Shazzrah, the worst fight for melees, pets were still 10-15% of the hunters’ dps.
I haven’t had any issues on the fire trash and neither did the raid I linked. You can see every single boss and trash fight in the logs I linked. You’ll only have your pet dying on these mobs if you get really unlucky with RNG or if your tank is tanking one of the earth elementals on top of the body of the fire ele.
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