Imagine if someone told you that you can look up the winning lottery numbers in two clicks. Then imagine that as soon as you did it, some other guy goes “Oh, look at this meta slave, looking up the winning numbers. I am just going to go with my birthday because I like having FUN. Winning isn’t everything you know”
This is the exact same energy as the people currently claiming that the “community” is to blame for the problems in SoD.
The SoD developers have to realize that they are designing a game for people living in 2024, where information is freely available and min/max is now the norm. You CANNOT stop websites like Warcraft Logs, WowHead, etc. from existing - you have to design with them in mind.
Stop blaming players for using common sense. Would you blame people for not picking the fat kid in gym class for anything requiring cardio? No. What if it was just for fun? Also no, because it will never be fun to get slaughtered by the other team. If you want to do it, good for you, but that doesn’t give you the right to be angry with the people who didn’t.
If the SoD team doesn’t want to do their literal job, which is to make all classes viable and appealing in raids, then why should players compensate for their shortcomings? Why are you asking players to pick the fat kid when they can just bring the 16 year old dude on steroids that got held back? I play a rogue, and I do not blame the people that don’t want to bring me along for Gnomer pugs. I blame the devs for the 400 IQ decision of making rogues do mid-tier dps while giving us zero utility for an entire phase. If I were you, I wouldn’t bring me either.
We have two choices. We can either hold the SoD devs accountable for being unable to design their game to be compatible with the state of 2024 gaming, or we can all keep living in an imaginary world, where players will eventually realize that they are wrong, completely change their nature, and start picking the fat kid even though they know they will do worse.
You completely missed the point of that simile. Also, I love how you only felt compelled to comment about the literal first sentence of my post. Thanks for contributing to this discussion.
What’s to add to a conversation where a person thinks min/maxing is not optional? What exactly is the goal other than to convince people your opinion is correct?
The players are responsible for the way people experience raiding, or lack thereof, because they are the ones who put the arbitrary requirements on raiding.
IF there were enrage timers, I might agree to an extent. But let’s not pretend this content is that difficult to require such stringent calculations.
Not sure if your analogy holds up. All kids have to do cardio, especially if they have a weight program. My man Ronald Regan would have a presidential physical fit if he read that.
Regan would tell you that all kids need to join a team.
“I don’t see the point in engaging with people that have a different opinion to my own”
Also, it’s not about arbitrary requirements. With the inclusion of raid IDs, people want to make sure that they can clear everything, because if they fail then that’s that. Additionally, I can perfectly understand why people might want to minimize the time it takes for them to clear the raid. These are all valid reasons for wanting to bring a more optimal class. You are literally asking people to make a suboptimal decision when they can simply make an optimal one with zero effort.
WE NEED A BUFF FOR MARKSMAN HUNTERS BADLY. ANOTHER ABILITY IN THEIR ROTATION WOULD BE NICE AS IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE MISSING SOMETHING. ALSO A RUNE TO BUFF ARCANE SHOT SO ITS NOT COMPLETELY USELESS AND NOT SHARING A CD WITH AIMED SHOT. make it happen!
Almost all of classic I have played specs that were “sub optimal” from a Prot Paladin and Elemental Shaman in Classic, to a Destro warlock in WOTLK. Even tried out shockadin recently and had some fun with it in SoD.
Sometimes doing something fun is fine. I would add that if you’re going to play something that isn’t the meta, you’ll need to make sure you have a really good idea of what you’re doing in general to even make it work. Just because you’re playing the FOTM spec doesn’t mean you’re going to be good at it. It just means that even mediocre skill is going to be passable.
I agree that it can be fun to try to squeeze the most out of sub optimal specs. However, I don’t think it’s fair to expect all players to enjoy doing so. Ultimately, people just want to play the spec they like and not be turned away from content just for a choice they made 40 levels ago, even if they put in the effort to be good at their class.
I would argue that if there’s no enrage timer, there’s no issue. The only argument I could understand is time which isn’t a min/max or player issue, that would be a ‘you’ (generally speaking) issue. If I don’t have 1-2hrs to commit to a raid, I shouldn’t join one.
And I engage with people all the time who have differing opinions. Sometimes I’m wrong, sometimes I’m right, but what I had said was what was the point in this discussion if you automatically do not believe it’s not optional. Does that mean then you’re looking for a convincing argument to prove you wrong?
Opinions can be wrong. I’ve proved it with another person who thinks pots are the most critical thing to have to do. This mentality has more to do with imposing self worth and value. Most people playing SoD have better accomplishments than purple/orange parses and still clear raids.
I am never locked into my opinions. Obviously, if anyone provides a good enough argument, I will always change my stance. You decided to assume otherwise.
If anyone can provide me with an example where players have been successfully held responsible for their behavior and then changed said behavior without the devs having to change anything about a game, I will obviously change my mind about this issue. Or any similarly strong argument, really.
With that said, this post was about presenting my arguments, and then being open to people engaging with them. Which is not at all what you did.
In order for this analogy to be accurate, it would have to be literally impossible to clear a raid without the exact correct class setup. Since raids are still clearable even by the worst performing specs, your analogy is broken. Min/maxing, in fact, is optional
You have more examples of people clearing content without incessantly focusing on min/maxing than those that do. I do find it hilarious that, in this context, people can be so focused on them purple/orange parses but forget that the reason GREY parses exists is due to the fact people cleared those fights sub-optimally.
Tell me how many people gray parse who clear vs those at the other end of the spectrum? I’m not arguing whether the time or the quality of the clear is going to be better, not at all. But the fact they clear proves min/maxing is not required.
