Why is this spell so weak? I can’t even bring myself to put it on my bars. I could see using it if it had like a 20 second CD or something, but 45? Yes, I understand that it’s shorter with more talents, but it just doesn’t do that much dmg. It feels horrible to use.
8 Likes
It does slightly more damage than pressing something else instead and because it’s in the class tree it’s not directly competing with any other talents that deal damage. It’s definitely near inconsequential though. I’d prefer if it leaned harder on the healing reversal aspect and wasn’t actually a dps increase to use, a niche powerful spell that’s strong in the right circumstance.
8 Likes
It’s ok as filler on shadow and that’s about it.
It’s awkward because it’s too weak to send it during void form because you have too many higher prio buttons for the whole duration of it. Wings build probably is fine with it.
And disc its not worth using anymore either because if you’re not spending that global pressing smite you’re kinda trolling.
1 Like
I think I understand it now. It does enough dmg that it’s a few % more total dmg. I could opt out of it, but I’d rather min-max.
It’s a nice insanity ramp up spell when you’re starting a fight, dmg is a nice little bonus.
It’s what ever, good for pvp though I guess.
Mindgames is a Shadowlands PvP hold over and Blizz didn’t want to add any Shadow path that was just a flat % damage increase. So the end result is just extra button bloat.
4 Likes
It still has niche utility in pvp. I don’t use it often for the damage reversal, but if we are pressuring an enemy dps in pvp I’ll throw it on the healer, especially if dispel is down, to buy us time to get another cc on them.
In pve it’s super lackluster as everyone else said, and I also wish they would lean into this mechanic to give us some additional utility.
Mind games— not to discount your experience, seem fine for a finisher. You can watch YouTubers, such as, MMarkers for a great example of its effectiveness!
It’s great in PVP for a finisher. I don’t even use it in PVE. The 0.4% increase to DPS isn’t worth the button bloat. I’d much rather pick up other utility/healing options.
1 Like
They had to keep 1 cov ability from shadowlands for each class and chose this one, but it’s maybe a 3rd as strong as it previously was.
Pretty weak now even in PvP but prior to this xpac it was strong and usually best dispelled though now you’re better off healing through it as the reverse is so small.
1 Like
Because it’s just a filler mini-nuke that’s leftover and blizz forgot to remove.
Imo, they should’ve kept UH Nova over this. Easily could’ve had it play into Spriest mastery as well and I liked the theming behind it of being a big AoE DoT explosion.
1 Like
I’d honestly rather have it do no damage but double the “reversion” effect. That way:
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It would be an amazing “finisher” in PVP, and it would be a good 1v1 tool for survivability.
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It would prevent it from seeming necessary in PVE.
A downside would be that there would be no Shadow-oriented spell for a capstone for the main priest class tree, at least from a PVE standpoint. But honestly, I don’t think Shadow’s rotation benefits from the extra button that Mind Games brings.
3 Likes
I wish they’d buff it because its current design is terrible and heavily overnerfed, especially for a capstone ability.
2 Likes
the new shadowy apparitions build don’t even take it anymore.
Since MB damage is so pathetically low, maybe add it in some way (obviously tuned for the CD/damage of mindblast) so when I see MB crit for 50k I won’t feel so poorly for pressing it instead of anything else.
MB looks like its critting for roughly 200-300k nowadays in PvE.
That’s right, Every one assumes pve at all times on the forums.
I was speaking about pvp, where it’s abysmal, and the reverse effect Mindgames on heals/damage to the target it’s applied to is even worse.
1 Like
I would love to see this as a hero talent. For a shadow/disc hybrid, have mind games cause no damage but double or triple the ‘reversion’ and increase the duration by a second or two. For a shadow/holy hybrid and make cause some damage, but it work like unstable affliction if dispelled. For a holy/disc hybrid just make it cause zero up front damage, but cause the target redirect increased damage to their own teammate or to themselves for a slightly shorter duration, to be used as an offensive ability get more heals off that doesn’t directly apply damage.
Just wanted to add my stance on Mindgames.
Should become fully utility based. No raw damage should be attached to the effects.
Possible pairing with Vampiric Embrace in sharing the same choice node.
Any enhancement talents could increase the healing and damage effects dealt and increase duration.
Here are some ideas…
- Mindgames (Redesign)
Assault an enemy’s mind, briefly reversing their perception of reality.
For 5 sec, any damage they deal will heal their target, and any healing they deal will damage their target.
(Choice) - Vampiric Embrace
Fills you with the embrace of Shadow energy for 12 sec, causing you to heal a nearby ally for 40% of any single-target Shadow spell damage you deal.
Follow up enhancement talent #1
- Sanguine Teachings
- Mindgames: Your Mind Spells and Shadowfiend [Mindbender] increase the duration of Mindgames by 0.5 seconds each time they deal damage.
- Vampiric Embrace: You’re Vampiric Touch heals your group for 5% of the damage dealt. While Vampiric Embrace is active, this effect is doubled and grants your party 5% leech.
(Choice)
- San’layn
- Mindgames: Reduces the cooldown of Mindgames by 30 sec, increase the damage and healing reversal effect by 100%.
- Vampiric Embrace: Reduces the cooldown of Vampiric Embrace by 30 sec, increases its healing done by 25%.
Possible follow up talents in class tree or for Hero Talent trees.
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When Vampiric Embrace is active, your party leech effects are doubled.
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While Vampiric embrace is active, you receive 10% of the leech amount from your party back as health.
(Choice) -
Any over-healing done from Vampiric Embrace leech effects gets focused to the lowest health member of your group.
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Mindgames becomes an area of effect spell, affecting up to 8 targets.
(Choice) -
Mindgames gains an additional charge.