But with that newfound power as Rogue escape the clutches of destruction it means more QQ about Rogues existing. Midnight is going to be WoD 2.0 for Rogue and very positive for the class. Not so much for other classes on the other hand.
Just an observation of what is to come.
A true WoD 2.0 would have Combat rogue, non of this outlaw funny dice business. Prep coming back is craaaaazy work though.
Sub, Assassination, and Outlaw are going to see a rise that we have not seen in a long time.
Expect to see other classes complaining about Rogues in PVE and PVP soo enough (eg Hunters).
I can feel it in my bones already and the tsunami of tears are incoming and I have my surf board ready to ride the wave Midnight momentum.
Rogue in Midnight is far from being good as in WoD. There’s so many bugs, identity crisis, energy regen issues and so on… it just doesn’t feel right, except few minor changes.
There is no identity crisis for Sub, Assassination or Outlaw heading into Midnight. Energy is just a tuning issue as in alpha it was higher than retail and now it is slower than retail so at some point it will be closer to retail when dust settles.
The bugs are a common theme from expansion to expansion.
But the difference is that Rogues are relatively unscathed relative to other classes meaning the Rogues have a stronger foundation heading into Midnight compared to other classes. Like WoD less but common sense changes is where Rogue shine in terms of development for Midnight.
I mean, there is kind of an identity crisis with outlaw still. thematically speaking. what started as a Pirate, globbed into a “highwayman”, dance dance revolution shooter, vanish window gunner with the underhanded upperhand, now has western shooter high noon tumble weed animation from BtE?
so idk personally it has the largest identity crisis out of every class in the game, in that its doing to many different things. even its sound fx just do not hit compared to classics, the crunch on cheap shot in classic is chefs kiss. there was grit behind the sounds back then.
is outlaw rogue just “slap stuff at it, and what sticks, sticks” spec, or is there actual thought behind these decisions. 
I Don’t Know. Outlaw is basically like 4 fantasies in one. its all just clashing with each other. the cosmic gambler now has a tumble weed animation from BtE’s, the trickster has more swish and swirl with blade rush animations paired with coup.
but speaking in terms of kit and player power, im more optimistic with this outlaw version going into midnight. interested to see what happens when we start getting to the meat and potatoes of the expansion.
Outlaw is based off the Vancleef family so I think it has an identity. The problem is that it needs to lean more into it with group buffs and debuffs like the PVP talents do and to be able to throw around health vials for allies (old PVP talent Dreak Up Me Hearties) or poison vials for your foes.
Survival Hunter is in worse shape than Outlaw heading into Midnight…boom fire stick and shotgun when Survival has always been about traps and poisons.
I genuinely wish outlaw could’ve gotten that potential group CDR concept iirc that was around like before DF right? like I get it would be a balancing nightmare, but they also just introduced Deadly Pursuit, which in my head is kind of nutty of a button to just slap into the game. “can’t hit the boss? here, take this free CDR”
would’ve been cool to see outlaws raid buff being raid wide CDR, with the leash taken off and just slam combos into a bosses face!
i mean outlaw was being turned from a pirate to a more general definition of outlaw is good. as the person who suggested the tumbleweed animation, im very happy to see it appear in game. now anyone can go to outlaw and see themselves as a pirate or disperado gunslinger, or a highwayman
thats also incorrect, survival had a explosive theme since its inception, while yes im sad to see the poison side of things go, i think them leaning on the fantasy that the majority of players like and the reason why survival has a solid population is a good thing. things change and people just have to get used to that
your comparing two different things, a good outlaw will absolutely turn specs with 2 min cds into a 30 second cds, being balanced around that would feel absolutely terrible
And they moved away from it when Survival no longer was fully ranged.
Survival’s population is low just like Outlaw what are you rambling about?
You mean like the worst cool down ever added like Keep it Rolling which no one touched even with the 1 minute reduction to it baseline people were well…you need a set bonus too to make it work. Meaning you think Prep is the worst CD added ever and yet you ignore how terrible Keep it Rolling was for the majority of TWW.
Contradiction much?
it was stil lapart of survivals fantasy with dragonfire grenade
theres been multiple instances where survival population overtook marksmen in the past 3 expansions
we werent balanced around kir at any point, the builds between kir and ho was always within 5% of each other.
prep as of right now being a 4min cd with no cdr and its anti synergistic nature makes it the worst cd i nthe game, to the point that every feedback around prep in the feedback thread is asking for blizzard to make it provide charges instead of what it does now
kir was liked by a far amount of outlaw players especially highend ones. but it was no way required to perform as outlaw for the majority of the population
Key word was and then poof.
In other words barely meanwhile BM and MM are still kings of the mountain.
They were balancing around KIR which is why the long CD stayed and at best they only lowered it by 1 minute which is still bad.
Naive players asking for AR to have a charge isn’t a surprise to me, because they want to wreck Outlaw like they wrecked Sub with multiple charges of Shadow Dance which happened in legion and has been a mess since then.
Multiple charges on your main DPS CD is very hard to balance right and often leads the rest of the kit nerfed to the ground.
If BlizZard sticks to their guns and does no charge system with AR I would be seriously impressed.
If it was liked by so many players they wouldn’t have had to nerf the CD by a full minute in the first place. KIR was by definition the worst CD added to Rogue in the history of Rogue to make the live servers.
it was still appart of survivals fantasy in legion as well. like what are you trying to say here
survival still keeps a healthy population compared to these two specs, granted bm blows both mm and survival away for obvious reason. again what are you trying to argue here
you have no idea how spec tuning works, they only reduced its cd by 1min because it was a solid 6% behind ho during that time, when its supposed to be ahead of ho due to its more diffcult playstyle. but not much to make people feel like it was mandatory.
again i wont explain this to you because you dont want to listen or learn
i hope they do add a charge system to it.
they dont do spec tuning based on population you absolutely goob
Yes they do ever hear of ret PALLIES you play pally a lot.
A charge system would mean near perma AR which goes against moving AR back to a proper CD because on live you are using AR as an energy management buff you have to keep up or else your DPS tanks. Boring.
KIR a cool down that has CDR BUILT INTO it and the CD was still so long and bad, But with a full minute reduction to help nudge players to pick up this dead talent, and still was radioactive to the majority of Rogue players. Enough said.
Survival has such a healthy population that they are changing survival so radically that it no longer resembles Survival from WotLK or from Legion? Or not even from BFA? What is Survival now? Grenades fire boom stick gadgeteer?
Legion changed Survival fantasy to go all in with melee so you have a lot to learn.
they dont buff ret paladins because theyre popular. if you play actual content you’ll see that they buff ret because it falls off heavily in higher end content where the people around you dont die and funnel you free wings.
it would not, a charge on AR would mean you get one extra AR per 5min encounter. the strength of charges is being able to use that charge of ar during unavoidable downtime. both charges do not benefit from cdr, only one charge at a time.
its sub 1min with proper play.
alot of specs fantasy evolves into something different. ret which you mentioned, used to be a support spec like aug with seal casting. also explosives has been part of its fantasy since vanilia with explosive traps and bombs, now its evolving to fit that growing fantasy
and it still used dragonfire bombs as apart of its core kit.
No you all want AR charges to have near perma AR which is the TWW fiasco 2.0 repeated. Let me put forth the same arguments you made. AR with CDR is a 1.5 minute CD and with charges you can have AR near perma which then becomes an energy buff you have to maintain most of the time.
With proper talents, set bonus and the stars align in other words it is being removed for Midnight because it was the worst CD in the game for Rogue ever introduced.
Sub is still Sub and Assassination is still Assassination. Outlaw in Midnight is basically Combat so you are out of momentum with your arguments.
And how long did that last? Exactly.
Ret is over buffed on retail which is why they had to do a series of nerfs in Midnight beta.
no you cant, because both charges of adr isnt cdr’d you only get one extra adr in opener only IF you want to use it. then you use adren on cd, thus not benefiting from any more extra charges of adren. the point of the extra charge is to use it during downtime where theres intermission that prevents you from benefiting from restless blades.
??? dude i just cant with you on god.
sub went more deep into its budding ninja fantasy with shadowclones and assassin pingponged from being gcd locked to pooling.
outlaw in midnight is outlaw aka a highwayman with a gun, combat was just fury warrior. again when you play the spec, your goin to flip flop on all of your arguements so hard its going to be comical
all legion, then all bfa where they added more bomb stuff, then in shadowlands where bomb stuff was present the whole expansion not just the last tierset and in df. also keep in mind survival still had exploive stuff since its incept in vanila. explosive trap was a thing and it turned to wildfire bomb over time
i wouldnt call middle of the pack. overbuffed
warcraftlogscom/zone/statistics/44
also a aura reset isnt a nerf, alot of specs got aura reset in last weeks midnight build. ret was the only one for somereason was added to readable patch notes. bear got its 1000% aura “nerfed” to 0, unholy also got a aura nerf, every tank and healer got a aura “nerf”
they aura reset every class in the start of every expansion
Which is still near perma uptime so thanks for making my point.
I am not a god but I am the deliverer of great news.
And now it is being re-designed again because Survival has no identity as it has an identity crisis.
Everyone knows that Ret needs to be nerfed in PVE and PVP.
The reason is because Ret is vastly overperforming like they do on live.
Tuning may be on going but that drastic of a nerf is reserved for spec that are already broken on live client as they head into alpha/beta.
Wouldn’t it be Rogues raid buff.
No Outlaw for sure.
Outlaw is the premier buffer/debuffer of Rogue specs.