Midnight Crafting: Some humble TWW observations and requests

tl;dr: The progress walls in TWW crafting start on day 1, not on the transition between “novice” and “expert.”

Quick disclaimer: I am not an expert or theorycrafter and I have no access to historical data about crafting engagement, the economy, or item prices. This post is about what I see and feel, not what I am stating is objective fact. I’m probably wrong about some things, and that’s okay.

Coming back after a long break, I noticed some big changes to professions in The War Within (I guess this started in Dragonflight). Compared to how they used to work, the system now feels like walking into a wall on Day 1 instead of climbing a hill that gets steeper over time. With Midnight around the corner, I am collecting reflections about crafting:

-Recipes are locked behind RNG and slow time gates
-Any useful crafts need time-gated materials like Artisan’s Acuity
-You can’t grind a profession in a week, it’s locked behind cooldowns and daily or weekly chores
-Leveling your character is fast but leveling crafting is slow, so by the time you can make early gear it’s already outdated
-Professions now have talent trees and making bad choices has permanent consequences. You get one respec per expansion and a second mistake can ruin a crafter for that whole expansion.
-The work orders required for advancement and to obtain gated materials pay dramatically less than the cost of materials.

To be clear, I actually think some of these ideas are solid. They’re trying to make professions feel meaningful again, with a long-term identity and big rewards for the people who stick with them. That’s good. The folks who commit to their craft every week, max out specialization, and chase rare reagents should absolutely be the ones crafting best-in-slot gear and making gold. That’s what real artisans do. In Midnight, I want to to see master artisans get good rewards, unique mounts, and meaningful buffs.

But right now, there’s no rewarding early or midgame for crafting. It’s either you’re all in for the long haul or you’re standing outside looking in. By the time most returning players or late starters can craft anything useful, they’ve already gotten better gear from world quests or tokens. Unless you plan your profession from the launch of an expansion, there will always be a faster way to make gear or cash. Time gating makes sense for top-tier rewards, but time gating the most basic entry point makes “alt-F4” more appealing than the crafting table.

So here is my desire for Midnight: Let us grind out the first 50 skill points and unlock a few useful items in the first week or two. Let us craft some solid blues that are better than quest drops but not as good as heroic gear. A couple gadgets or potions or enchants that are actually worth using, but not so good that they can be taken directly into mythics. These do not have to be marketable items, and the best gear crafted at lower skill levels should be BoP so they don’t ruin the economy. Let us start feeling like crafting is part of our character’s toolkit instead of something that might become relevant two months later, assuming a patch doesn’t make it obsolete.

For Midnight, can we tone down the RNG around recipe acquisition? In TWW, Engineers “invent” a random (first RNG) item daily, break it down into a small handful (second RNG) of scrawled notes, stack 15 of them into a pile, then click the stack for a (third RNG) recipe. It’s kind of silly. Nobody in the history of anything ever set out to learn how to make espresso and accidentally made a soufflé. Then came back the next day and accidentally made pie. Then came back a third day and accidentally made cat food … and still can’t make espresso.

I’d like Midnight to have a “research notes” currency that comes from research cooldowns, repeatable quests, and maybe even rotating Delve missions. You could visit a professor NPC, do a quick research cooldown or fetch quest, get some Artisan’s mats and research notes, and then spend those pages to buy recipes appropriate to your profession level and spec. Still gated. Still a time investment. But at least we’re aiming at something instead of pulling slot machines. Big rewards for long-term commitment should stay. But there needs to be a reason for casual players, alts, or people coming in mid-expansion to care about crafting at all. Right now it’s asking for wiki reading and spec planning and full commitment before it gives anything back. Once the player gets some payback from the low investment in crafting, they’re more likely to continue along the path.

I see similar criticism in these forums, on reddit, and in other forums like Ars Technica. This post by Starwarsfigu ( Professions were completely neglected in 11.2 and War Within at large ) also posted frustration about how few recipes showed up in 11.2 and how neglected professions have been in TWW. It may be an admission that something isn’t working and needs to change. Midnight is coming. It’s a good time to start planning.

I’d like to hear what others think about making the low levels of a profession easy to grind and useful so people can get their toes wet and reap some personal reward before committing to a months-long chorecraft. If professions are the same way in Midnight, are you likely to get involved in them?

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I just gather now.

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That’s a good way to make money out of those profession slots. They even added time-gated missions to that, too!

I should’ve put a tl;dr on my post. I’ll do that.

It’s not so much the gold as the fact that I used to do all the professions, but now no longer find crafting interesting.

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I’m right there with you, friend. To the point of this post, would you engage in crafting more if the RNG was turned down and the early crafting items were BoP but good gear until you replace it with heroics or world quest rewards?

What rng? There’s very little rng outside of alchemy.

There are already optional reagents that make the starter gear bop and increase the ilvl.

Just remove professions at this point.

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You can get to the point of making max-rank crafts in less than a week. It’s very easy to grind to 50, invest your knowledge points into what you are trying to make, and call it a day. As for world quests, that’s genuinely impossible. The best world quest pieces go to 691, the highest crafted pieces go to 720.

Probably not. Once I’ve lost interest in something that feeling never comes back. They worked hard to make the current system appeal to a different type of person than me.

I used to craft gear for my alts. Making gear BoP would mean it would only be useful to the crafter who happens to be of the right armor/weapon type. So reroll all? I am so far away from ever wanting to do this in this life.

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As a crafter I personally disagree with most of this and found TWW to be the best crafter experience so far. Some of the recipes being locked behind very low drops, still don’t have the chef hat from Meadery, sucks but the crafting system as a whole is great.

My only complaint would be that they could make more clear for players how to get knowledge. I use a weak aura to track what knowledge I can get each week to see what I have or have not done yet. Especially useful for enchanter since you get knowledge from disenchanting and there is no real in game indication of if you have or have not gotten all the knowledge you can for the week from weekly locked points.

I also find the number of perk difference between professions to be annoying. I maxxed out tailoring but still have roughly 1/5 of Blacksmithing left because there is a knowledge/perk difference between the professions.

To break it down…

I don’t agree this is a problem, if anything its kinda the point so that it spreads out the balance and economical power of the professions. One guy may be good at crafting tools, another at armor, another at weapons, another at who knows what. It opens things up, more so at the start of an expansion, for multiple blacksmiths having value instead of a single go-to!

Again, this is a non-issue… You shouldn’t be able to do everything right out the gate. Crafting being its own entire system and progress is a good thing. While I can see why this is annoying for some it works well as an incentive and something to work towards.

Again, not seeing why this is a problem… I disagree with the mentality you should be able to get everything done in a day or even a week. I say this as someone against artificial time gating (IE X is locked until Y day!) The only thing I will say is that you should always have ways, during the week, to keep grinding certain things even if at a GREATLY reduced rate.

If someone wants to spend the first month no-life focusing professions to get an edge, let them. But what you are describing is not that, you want easy capped professions you don’t have to work for past the first day/week and I just can’t agree with that.

Except this is a flat out lie… Some of the highest Ilvl gear you can make is from crafting. My weapon is a 720 crafted 2h sword. I can make 720 ilvl gear for every slot, you are only locked to two embellishments but can make as much crafted gear as you want and even catalyst it!)

Crafting is important for end game gear and if you are not utilizing it or believe its not then that shows you don’t understand just how good it is…

This is a bad take considering you can, and if you keep up with it will, unlock every node. I have 100% of tailoring nodes unlocked. I can do anything and everything with tailoring.

The only leeway I will give you is there is no catch-up for alts, late players, etc. Blizzard should really consider ways to introduce catch-up mechanics for leveling crafting through the expansion. But there is no “Bad Choice” and you can get every node fully upgraded.

Eh… ill give you that… some of the NPC Work Orders are costly and more so at the beginning of an expansion when materials are expensive. But currently, in the 11.2 patch, most all materials are incredibly cheap (If you disagree then you have bigger problems than professions, you need to figure out your income)

They should really make sure that at the start of an expansion that things are more financially viable but even then that’s a free market player driven economy.

Overall, I honestly disagree with everything you said and personally love the crafting system! It made major improvements over Dragonflight and I can’t wait to see how Midnight tunes it even more.

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I would very much like to know how this is done. I wasn’t even advocating for max-rank crafts. I was just advocating for the the intro levels (what old wow would call Apprentice and Journeyman) valuable without dailies or time gated mats, but keep Expert/Artisan behind a commitment to work. The example the espresso happened in the form of not getting “whimsical wiring” until my 4th daily “invent” cooldown really happened, and with very little rusted parts (unlucky RNG when leveling, and using Timewalking dungeons to do some leveling) I had no luck rummaging through scrap to and pilfering through parts to get skill-ups for a while. This is to say nothing for the inability to do work orders (couldn’t craft the parts) and lack of access to Artisan’s Acuity. I suppose I could’ve gone to the AH and bought thousands of bolts to pilfer through and again pray to the RNG gods.

I think you misunderstood my words. I repeatedly said that I don’t want everything out of the gate. I want a good solid introduction to get the character aligned and invested in the profession and some hook to get them to make the long commitment and maybe get as good as you one day,

While we disagree, I am glad you enjoy the existing crafting system. It means that your crafts are on the market for other people to buy, so they’re not just “gone.” I have the feeling you’re one of the people who started your cooldowns on Day 1 of TWW, an by now have made all sorts of highly coveted, rare items. My post was not really for you. It was for the people who tried out quests, plotlines, delves, and raids and want to try crafting. My post was for returning players who see so many mechanics that require daily logins and time dedication but it’s not 2009 anymore and they have homes and families to support. My post was for a friend of yours - the person who never played before and sees how much fun you are having even in crafting, but doesn’t have the context of the layered requirements to get any value whatsoever out of that time+gold investment.

Again I am not trying to say you are wrong because I welcome your perspective. I’ll try to see it a little more through your eyes, but I still think that professions in game should have some mirror of real-life skills. Anyone can learn in 10 minutes how to cook an egg. Anyone could learn in one hour how to make crab-stuffed mushrooms. Very few people invest the time to become Thomas Keller or Guy Fieri or even Julia Child, but they spent hundreds of hours over years to reach their level of success. Cooking really good things for just yourself as you develop base skills should be very fast without very heavy investment, but at some point a decision must be made on how far to go. You, my friend, are our Gordan Ramsey and I am more like Paula Deen when it comes to TWW crafting.

If you had no mats, no artisan acuity, or sparks, no skill levels at all, would you take a crafting profession now?

crafting sucks now. Now i just gather. everytime you change zones you have to start over i use to love enchanting and jewel crafting but now cant make any thing that is use full because you cant get any recipes by the time you do it says they are unlearned wtf… cooking is unreal… i have yet to find anything to cook and i have 2 level 80 and 4 level 70+

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Level yourself to 50, equip green tools, and dump your knowledge points into the craft you want to make.

Small quibble with this statement: if you are persistent enough about your crafting, you will eventually max out the full specialization tree. It won’t be quick, but errors will be irrelevant in the end.

However, I do think the low-end of crafting needs more love. The material costs feel excessive to just do basic training-over-time and get some gameplay out of NPC work orders.

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Okay, if you’re primary experience is with Engineering, I understand your viewpoint. Engineering is an abomination. Its both expensive and mostly useless. For all the others I was able to make useful starter gear very early. I crafted a ton of stuff for alts in early S1.

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Engineering definitely has some bloat, I think that mostly comes from the fact it uses entirely unique items including missives. I believe there’s 80 points dedicated just to crafting those and unlocking them instead of using inscription ones.

I get the profession-specific reagents, everyone gets those to a degree, but Engineering feels a bit too much.

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I think that is ok you don’t get all recipes at will. I’ve got all of them from delves, etc.
Some from raid, well, we don’t get any new recipe since the first tier so I think we can lock some of them behind renown.

That’s expected as it should be. We don’t need to go back to Shadowlands or prior where if you just sweep your card you can have anything you want with gold.

That is also ok. Same as previous: no sweepers. You gotta put some effort before you can reap what you sow. I like the current system because of that. Never had make so much gold out of crafting as I do since Dragonflight, and it is HELL OF FUN. I talk to a lot people and I get to know a lot people who keep coming back later directly for more crafts.

Previously? Sweepers just sweep their credit card, buy gold, buy everything, and get ahead of everyone.

No more.

That’s something we could revise, I agree, blacksmith orders are extremely expensive for gaining the points. I think other professions have it easier. I liked more the previous system from DF where you had the quests.

Perhaps a mix of both with a better approach with costs of crafting for these patron work orders?

You shouldn’t have in game advantage for being a blacksmith or so. You do because it is one way to play and have fun. I have tons of fun being a Blacksmith and I do because I like it. And I make my gold out of it as well.

If you think it should be appealing, then crafting is not for you.

OK this is screwed, for Blacksmith we simply get them from delves, dungeons, etc. Same for Jewelcrafting that I also have.

I agree, we didn’t have anything new and the catch up mechanism for non-gathering (and non-enchanting) is time gated and awfully expensive. I’d like to see some more quality of life with that matter.

I think that everyone should have the same head start but if you start later, I don’t see a problem that you’re able to catch up. Otherwise you will never have a chance to compete in the market.

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In what universe were you able to make that soon after the start of the expansion? Nice strawman argument.

My opinion is that when Ion told us this system was going to make crafting THE casual content pillar that all casuals would be doing, he was lying. It’s for people who live to min max every content, and think actual casuals who used to dabble in crafting were doing life wrong.

Well, good thing you’re one of the players who enjoys min maxing crafting so you can play as a bot who cosplays as a wheeler dealer.

That’s a huge copium from a level 20 forum rat that is just to smear other people’s reputation. Grow up or leave me alone.

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