And yet you are very specific to the types of Pallys, Shamans, and Monks in your answer. So why group priests in one group…‘class’ and group the other healers based on ‘spec’? You play a dungeon using a spec…not a class. You don’t zone in as a priest. You zone in as holy priest or discipline priest. So either way, using your own data, we are under represented.
4 Likes
Now you’re arguing over semantics 
You compared Priests to other classes… which incorporates both Disc and Holy. I present data based on classes with healer specs within them, of which Pallys, Shamans and Monks have only one.
Because you’re grouping both specs into one role and doubling the actual representation of the class. You can’t be both disc and holy at the same time to get higher representation than a resto shamans. Guess who also suffers from this? Druids and their dps spec.
If you were to tell someone playing Feral that Druid DPS has good representation by presenting data that includes Balance and Feral grouped into one generalized ‘dps role metric’, they would smack you across the head.
As it stands, there is no semantics confusion. There are six healing specs in the game. Period. The priests has two of them and that doesn’t mean you group them together to inflate and double down on representation numbers to call it a success.
3 Likes
Generally when someone makes the claim that a class DPS is bad compared to other classes (for example Mage at the start of this expansion), they are referring to all DPS roles within that Class together.
If there was a disparity of DPS specs within that Class, counter-arguments are made in the case of one over the other (like in your example of Balance vs Feral).
Something else to consider is the overall numbers of players using that class. If 100 players are using Druid for healing, and 100 players use Priest, the representation of numbers within each spec of Priest will always be less than the total amount of those playing Resto due to the nature of choice. Thus to compare each spec within Priest to one spec within Druid, is an unfair and inaccurate comparison.
Huh…? Not sure why you went on a tangent there.
The example of Druid DPS is an analogy of misunderstanding the health/viability of Feral by using misleading class representation data…which is what you were doing by grouping disc/holy together.
If 100 druids are healing, they are using resto spec. If 100 priests were healing, there would be a permutation of 100! between people using disc/holy. This much is true. However, it’s unfair as you stated.
Despite you going off on a tangent with my example, this is exactly why you can’t group them together as a measure of success. You even said it yourself:
the representation of numbers within each spec of Priest will always be less than the total amount of those playing Resto due to the nature of choice
To be truly fair, you would need 200 priests with 100 strictly playing holy and 100 strictly playing disc. Thus, It has to be separated…because once more, you can only do one thing at a time.
Going back to those numbers, if the measure of success is based upon that 18.2% representation, then it’s suggested more priests are taken than shamans. This is a hollow shell of representative success.
As it stands, Resto shamans are taken 11.5% of the time over a disc priest at 8.7% and holy at 9.5% as they can only do one of the roles. The summation of a ‘healing’ priest does not equal reality.
2 Likes
Remove yseras gift from the game imho.
From what I hear the issue is the Blizzards Corporate Managers. BFA was really behind schedule, so they rushed things (and it really shows). And with how terrible the systems have been they have had to put a lot of unplanned time into fixing them.
This has put them REALLY behind in Shadowlands developments as well. So to make up for that they are just not putting any time/effort into further class development in BFA. The result is that there are just no fixes, no tunings, no nothing.
I mean look how long it took them to nerf infinite stars… they have their priorities all screwed up. I’ve heard the Devs want to work on these issues and are really upset they aren’t allowed ti by their crappy managers, not to mention they are firing their best people to “save money,” when if they just did what they normally do and make games that don;t suck, that wouldn’t be an issue.
Sadly the Corporate Structure is completely corrupt, Executives who control their own salaries, and when the company profit goes down because they are leeching it all to executives, they fire employees and TADA they are profitable again.
1 Like
That will barely dent their dominance. You still have brez, top tier mobility, great damage, great survivability and overall great throughput (not as great as holy pally but still very good).
The 8.3 nerfs to their mastery and sunfire were both a joke and barely a drop in the bucket of what is needed.
I’d argue buff priest/other healers over nerfing druid. Only way to hit a resto druid right now is to take a hit at their utility, which would gut the class. Making other healing specs more attractive to bring by increasing the utility/bonuses they bring to a team would go a long way I think to helping out the balance.
Don’t forget at the beginning of this expansion, Disc was the meta for M+ because they could pull as much weight as a dps and heal at the same time—and paired with the ridiculous self-healing of a Blood DK tank, who brought a battle rez with them, it worked. Blizzard nerfed what made teams want to bring a Disc priest, and suddenly Disc representation dropped to the lowest of the healing specs last season.
2 Likes
Removing one piece of utility does not gut the class. Remove typhoon and they still have the awesomely powerful brez, stealth, entangling roots, high damage, high healing, high mobility, and would still be number 1 by a mile. I completely understand that no one likes to be nerfed, but classes are supposed to have weaknesses. Druid is the outlier having none.
Typhoon is nothing. Priests have a knockback, too, that can be cast at range on another person (i.e. your tank). Take away their battle rez or roots or stealth? They’ve had those since Vanilla and I’m against any further pruning of a class/spec. Again, bring other classes up to the bar rather than lower another beneath it.
I certainly don’t like the idea of removing iconic class abilities. There’s no easy solution, and I don’t call for pruning lightly. I appreciate that you’re vehemently opposed to pruning. I’m opposed to homogenization (giving everyone everything so they’re all the same). I don’t think either of us will convince the other, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
At least it seems we agree Typhoon can go; compromise!
One main weakness of Druid that I can think of is burst healing without a CD. (At least traditionally)
To be fair, even before the rankings were even put out, people were declining priest in M+ anyways. Unless you are running your own keys or people are getting impatient its just how M+ is atm. Sad to say i wouldn’t take a priest over almost anything else and thats something thats been a thing since M+ was implemented.
1 Like
Druid is 2 steps above the bar
No other healer can compete with their utility
Stun
Root
Soothe
Stealth
Dash
Knockback
Vortex
Innervate
Battle Rez
Does most healing on the move
Can pre hot before pulls to ease incoming damage
Taunt
Roots
Immunity to roots/slows
Defensives on relatively short CDs
Name one healer that has even close to that much utility. I’ll wait
No healer needs a kit like that, while others get maybe 2-3 of those options to use.
I hate pruning, but they have an oversized kit for m+ and bringing other healers up to their level would require severe changes to each healer.
As much as I hate to say it, the easiest way would be to simply bring druids down to the level of other healers. The gap between a druid and the next best healer is pretty sizeable
1 Like
Feedback was given on priests obvious bottom tier for all specs in 8.3 during PTR. Unfortunately, it was all ignored.
4 Likes
The problem is even if you ignored the fact that Druid Healers exists, both Monk and Shaman healers bring more/better utility than priests do. So yea Druids have too much but also priests simply do not have enough to be considered for anything. This is why its better to just focus on priest weaknesses as oppose to whats goin on with druid because gutting druid wouldnt suddenly make priests wanted.
1 Like
All I can say is most of you who are complaining will never play at the level they are speaking of, and it doesn’t really much matter. If you’ve watched people doing things like the MDI the level of perfection each player needs on top of the skill set the class they are playing brings is beyond the level of anyone who posts here, full stop.
The bigger concern (in my mind) is that videos of this sort really hurt the meta and force people into thinking certain classes are useless vs others. We have disc and holy priests completing low 20s last season. This season will be no different.
The more these type of threads infect the forums, the worse the perception gets. If you think the class is in a bad spot (IMO it’s really not…outside of Grievous…yuck) that is one thing, saying it’s totally useless and then pointing fingers as if it were the Haves vs the Have-Nots is not constructive nor beneficial.
As always, if you get rejected from applying to groups… make your own. If your key isn’t high enough for your liking, push it. If you can’t do that, you’re not as good as you thought you were in the first place. Take a step back!
3 Likes
Look sir, none of us are competing to be MDI level. We just want to time +15s since its where scaling stops for M+ in season 4. Logs show that priest representation is at the bottom (especially holy) for +15 keys in past season (if not all). Whats sad is this method video amplifies our out-of-meta predicament as it shows how big our gap is to MID TIER healers.
If priests were at least closer to shaman (in terms of M+ healing) then we wouldnt be in such a slump.
1 Like
I don’t agree with this. It doesn’t take a great deal of skill to pop an earth elemental to tank a large pull. And things like increasing holys dps can help push keys regardless of your skill level as long as you are already doing some dps. I missed a +6 last night by 60k health on the last boss. That would have been a success with any other healer given the amount of time I spent dpsing.
Likewise you don’t need to be in the top 10% to use an interrupt. The same can be said with brez, death runs, defensives, and immunities.
We do bring quite a bit of utility in our holy words stun, mass dispel, life grip, and fortitude. Its just that M+ are designed around everyone having an interrupt and we lack the utility that allows other healers to shave huge amounts of time from keys (whether this be higher dps, stealthing and rezzing or a self rez.)