Metamorphosis compromise!?

Classes Warlock
42

I understand, but we could get a similar play style delving into other magic schools.

My biggest example is Shadow Priests eventually over the years started slowly progressing into “Void” magic and is what we now are farmiliar with, why can’t Warlocks take the next step and progress further into “Death” magic?, shadowlands could be the expansion to write the lore and can then incorporate a Dread Lich, classes overtime usually get more powerful moving on from expansions…

Warlocks I feel is truely the only class that’s has lost power, we use to have Infernals and Doomguards as baseline pets, got removed, we had Metamorphosis for 8 years, started in Wotlk, got removed.

Warlocks havnt progressed in actual fact we’ve gone backwards through expansions, Shadowlands could be the expansion where we gain knowledge from the Primus and further push the Warlocks boundary and go deeper into Death Magic, we drain life, use to drain soul for soul shards, it’s the next step for us.

That’s why I put in the Talent Suggestions to keep the new play styles, Demonic Consumption Empowers pets, Nether Portal (which needs to be buffed to see actual use) for the Swarm Build play style and Change Sacrificed Souls (never used boring passive) to a Talent which could pay homage to the Old Metamorphosis and the play style is direct player power, this is where Dread Lich Form comes into play, fusing Death/Shadow and Fel Magic together.

So we have a Talent for every play style and they can choose which way better suites them. Empower your pets (Demonic Consumption), Swarm the enemies with Demons (Nether Portal) or Empower yourself (Dread Lich).

Even now Warlocks have had the same Demons for 17 years, while hunters every expansion and patch get a endless supply of new pets to tame to personalise themselves progressing, Warlocks don’t, we are like the Black Sheep of the classes in Blizzards eyes :neutral_face:.

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43

I think that Death magic belongs to Death Knights.

44

I’m not sure if you actually read what I wrote, in delving further into it, especially since our tool kit basically has Death Magic in it, Drain Life, Mortal Coil, Drain Soul, Health Funnel, we literally give our own life to heal our pets and not to forget Soulstone.

Warlocks already dabble in Death Magic. Especially from a Lores point of view.

Literally the lore for Warlocks: “ warlocks are essentially magical practioners known as necrolytes or necromancers and do what all warlocks do. They channel forbidden powers (the powers of shadow), follow the burning legion as acolyte followers, and seek to understand fel-based magics or use fel magic. “

Warlocks essentially use Death Magic, especially as Affliction, Destro plays more into Fel and Demo into Demons…

45

you dont need to change anything from the mop iteration. there is plenty of differences between old demo, dhs, and current demo for the old mop versionto coexist without diluting the others

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46

I would say warlocks and DK share death magic. Kind of the same umbrella from my perspective.

And yes…I love Infernal and being the class that controls demons a lot you would think there would be more options tied to them than what there are.

I would love to see the ability to “tame”(not the temporary subjugate) other demon types and such as well as get back the infernal and use doomgaurd more. I knew Infernals from Warcraft 3 but jumping in to wow ages ago, I remember players summoning them and then letting them run around in quest hubs back in the day. Not fun if you were leveling…but otherwise…good times. However long that happend before it got nerfed. Was fun watching that even when I was getting one shot.

Not sure how implementation would look but probably end up something like hunters.

I think Id prefer to choose a role for a demon if that were the case. Felgaurd is cool and all that but I wouldnt mind having a permanent tyrant or something like that.

Id say for me more for aesthetic reasons than anything else. More variety I suppose. Even if done via glyph system. Im sure Inscription wouldnt mind have more stuff to sell to the playerbase too.

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47

In a perfect world I’d love this, but for some reason it’s soo controversial having two demon forms even though they completely different, I honestly never understood why people are against this. Even against a Talent choice they’d never have to pick if the choose to stay away from Metamorphosis game play.

Baalsamael, is a Warlock player who is truely amazing and passionate about the class, he’s done great work and pretty much did the work for Blizzard for Warlocks getting a pseudo like stables. It’s definitely worth a read and bump it if you agree :grin:.

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48

We have the perfect model for a new meta with our very own class hero Gul’dan. Phase three night hold when he becomes more demonic would be a sweet demon/fel infused form and is purely a warlock thing since it’s an ability taken from one of the GOAT mortal warlocks.

Also give destro his green beam he does instead of channel demonfire. Looks sweet in the game and movie when he uses that.

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49

There’s really no reason for two classes not to share abilities. Look at Priests and Paladins, Flash Heal vs Flash of Light both sound like completely similar ability. Look at Mages and Shamans, Mages can summon Water Elementals when Shamans canonically can do the same thing.

I think both Warlock and Demon Hunter should have meta with completely different origins and functionality. They’ve completely ripped Kanrethad’s legacy by removing it entirely.

As for the Death Magic conversation, remember that Death Knights were originally Warlocks. Both classes dabbled in Death Magic. It’s just that Warlocks dabble in various types of magic (especially forbidden ones like Fel or Void and combination of the three) for more power.

I think Destruction needs more than just chucking Chaos Bolts with Infernals charging your Embers. Time has not been kind for Demo and Affliction as Demo lost Meta to an arbitrary reason of removing it from them and then giving it to Demon Hunters (This is kind of why I will always ALWAYS meme about nerfing Demon Hunters) as well as Affliction goes as many number of reworks as Ryze in League of Legends.

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50

only if thats a glyph. i miss green meta

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51

Maybe they gave it to the class it came from…and gave it to warlocks for an arbitrary reason? Its not very unique for warlock or Demom hunter if they both have it.

How about a new demon specific to warlock that you turn in to. Not entirely sure how many ppl want a demon form for warlocks to begin with except those who played it before. If done right I suppose it could work well.

What do you mean death knights were warlocks? I dont recall them wearing cloth at any point. Death knights and warlocks might use the same magic I guess but Deathknights are from manipulation of the dead. Warlocks center around demons.

52

Demon Hunters did not exist as a class in hindsight. Whomever gave Meta for Warlocks did not even know it would be a thing as a class nth expansions after its implementation.

Removing it and giving it to Demon Hunters is pretty much a silly reason. It is as silly as its implementation… only except it wasn’t and becoming one of the Demons you yourself command made sense.

This is what I mean by having meta with completely different origins and functionality. Both classes should retain demon transformation with different powers. Havoc is melee DH. Vengeance being a tank DH. Demonology being a commander of Demons.

Reminder, both Mages and Shamans control the elements of water. While Shamans control other primal elements, Mages study the arcane.

Flash of Light and Flash Heal are… identical abilities at this point. They’re both fast healing spells!

Gul’Dan’s Death Knights were Warlocks. Teron Gorefiend was one of them.

Gul’Dan, being the most iconic Warlock he is brought Gorefiend back from the dead as well.

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53

Ya they were called first gen dks right? He shoved the souls of his slain shadow council members into dead human knights to basically bring them back.

54

In Warcraft 2 right? Ya they had death and decay and were melee iirc. On horses…dead ones…

And sorry but yes Illidan, as noted I believe in this thread, was a Demon Hunter. It might not have been a class…but he claimed all of it in function and image. You are ignoring that relevant point in your arguement for this form for your class. Sadly it isnt exactly a silly arguement…lore wise its pretty relevant.

Demon Hunters…as the name suggests, was likely intended by its demon creators as a tool for their army. Illidan chose to weild it all, as the rest do, to kill demons wherever they exist. Lots of lore there tied up in warcraft 3 for his motivations…

Mages control water elementals. Or subjugate…Shamans commune with them and work WITH them to bring them to the shamans cause. Slightly different.

Warlocks subjugate or control demons for their will…like mages do. I dont really think that makes them viable to turn in to one themselves though I can see a lore path or whatever to do just that. Did Gul dan ever turn in to a demon? I really dont know but if he didnt and being the primary warlock example…if he didnt…

Its referencing Warcraft 2 lore to a degree and thats clearly changed from even Warcraft 3 and what it is now so.

Accurate or not someone else already provided info that a Demon Hunter class in BC was intended but never panned out.

55

My statement is that there is no real reason why both classes should not have shared abilities with different origins and functionality.

That’s not what I witnessed from Gul’Dan and Kanrethad Ebonlocke.

Yes, he did in the Nighthold Raid.

Perhaps this is why they added Meta for Demo Locks. Many liked it! Even Xelnath, to the point we have Kanrethad Ebonlocke who delved into the Black Temple in MoP to tap into Demonic Magic and turned into a demon himself. Defeating him gives you green fire as well as a title if done in CC.

Later in Legion, they removed meta and gave it to Demon Hunters. What’s worse is that we have iconic warlock characters turning into demons and we can’t. You might say Gul’Dan turn into a demon because he’s a bad guy and only bad guys turn into demons. But unfortunately that’s not the case for Ebonlocke.

Ebonlocke’s legacy is squandered the minute they removed Meta from Demo and give it to Demon Hunters. Rather than having both classes share abilities with different functionalities, like your Water Elemental example, they mellowed Demonology into Demonic Empowerment spamming spec and his legacy is most prevalent to Destruction Warlocks.

He’s a follower with Green Warlock Demon looking form to rub even more salt in the wound. But hey, we have green tyrant and green demonbolt right?

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56

If both classes have it whats the point? If it looks the same. It needs to be both functionally and visually different, then I think we both agree. I didnt personally like it when I was playing warlock. Just felt odd to me overall. I understand the appeal though for sure.

Illidan had it in warcraft 3 and Black Temple(not during MoP but in Burning Crusade) before Guldan and the rewriting that took place.

I really do see how people feel it was "taken from warlocks and “given” to demonhunters but the chronological process indicates, playable or not, it was taken from demon hunters and given to warlocks…then returned. It didnt belong to warlocks. Your examples are excellent…and they are post Black Temple and Warcraft 3 but those advocating for this for warlocks always say it was taken away, almost suggesting it was rightfully a warlock feature to begin with. It never was. Again if demon hunters were implemented in Burning Crusade as was suggested, warlock never would have had it to begin with. Do you agree with this chronologically speaking?

I think your examples indicate Blizzard got a little confused along the way and eventually corrected that. Either way there though, blizzard felt this wasnt appropriate class identity feature for warlocks (debateable as we see here =)) as a class and was better where it started, with demonhunter.

It seems to be class wise that a warlock wouldnt actually WANT to be a demon so much as control the power associated with the source of that magic. To actually become a demon…why then would you need those demons when you have direct access to that power yourself as well as that form? Just seems odd…

Rather interestingly…im going to try to link this wowpedia article on the character you are using …which makes both of us a touch wrong and reiterates, as far as I am briefly reading it at lunch, that warlocks truly never had access. Its a good read either way. Im going to leave what I said above as its just easier and say my perspective changes a little when I read this but my initial point about who had it first factually doesnt change neither does its ownership. That it can be shared somehow though, as I say in my first paragraph, doesnt change in terms of how I would see it re implemented.

If not just google Kantehad…had to remove the link…wowpedia.

Prior to Apotheosis and banishment in that article…Illidan is in fact the only individual able to embrace demonic form without it consuming him. Warlocks have to learn it and even then, as indicated, at incredible risk imo indicating that not all warlocks would be able to do this without dying in the process. My interpretation though.

Does support warlocks having it though despite it certainly initially being a demon hunter thing.

The lore around all of this has changed quite a bit over the years its become one of those things… I think that simply indicates Blizzard needing to clean it all up but I dont think thats a priority for them at this point.

Warcraft 2…they are deathknights…not warlocks. Their unit name is Deathknight. Did they wear plate? Thats a vidual interpretation thing at this point. They followed the command of a warlock yes sure.

“These soldiers of darkness were created by Gul’dan to replace the slaughtered Warlock clans. Assembled from the corpses of the Knights of Azeroth slain in the last battles of the First War, these abominations were then instilled with the ethereal essence of the Shadow Council. Further empowered with magical energies culled from the slain Necrolytes, the Death Knights wield an arsenal of necromantic and elemental spells that mete out all but certain death to the enemies of the Horde.[1]”

Wowpedia source. Looks like they replaced warlocks? Tied very well to undead etc…They arent warlocks.

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57

I’ll just conclude that Demon Hunters should be nerfed and go from there! :^)

I'm jesting, of course... Or am I?
58

Warlocks class fantasy and lore originally although may have changed, is literally sacrificing anything and everything for greater power, lifetap for example they’ll do anything and everything even costing themselves their own health to achieve it and the skill Demonic Sacrifice. Even ritual of doom to an extent where a play dies to summon a doomguard.

Warlock Demon form “Metamorphosis”, was literally the best iteration of it, they delved so deep into greater power and the demonic energy itself turning themselves into a demon temporarily giving up everything for ultimate power.

What I loved about Warlocks is nothing is off the table to gain power even if it was being a Demon themselves, which we had literally for 8 years.

But this thread isn’t about taking back metamorphosis, it’s a thread in giving the play style back through other means such as delving deeper into the necromancy side of warlocks and bringing a Dread Lich Form, mixing Death and Fel magic together.

In a perfect world I’d love old metamorphosis back from MoP, but hopefully we can atleast try bring back that amazing aesthetically pleasing style of play back.

That’s why I put forward a talent choice removing Sacrificed Souls, never picked boring passive, to bring this play style back giving Warlocks three avenues in play style.

Demonic Consumption - Empowering your Demons.
Nether Portal - Swarming the enemies (needs to be buffed)
Dread Lich (Metamorphosis) - Empowering the player.

Realistically it could be a Demon form since it’s completely different from DHs metamorphosis, being a ranged caster and completely visually different aswell but for the sake of being more unique I was suggesting a Dread Lich.

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59

Warlocks should atleast have the option of some visible fel corruption that occurs from using fel, at the very least. Gul’dan had green (or red) eyes and spikes protruding out his back in just his normal form. I don’t expect blizzard to add class customization but it would be sweet.

60

We literally use to have this!!, Destro Warlocks would collect burning embers and literally have fire coming off them, Demo Warlocks use to grow horns and all it was amazing then they removed it all.

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61

Yes I’m a career destro so them removing the ember fire to me was like demon form getting removed for the demo lovers imo. Taking away cool stuff for no reason

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