Slightly off-topic, but that’s hysterical coming from him. He wants LFR removed so he doesn’t have to make a choice. He wants a shared lockout so he doesn’t have to make a choice. He wants zero consequences to his choices. His entire presence on the forums is, “Remove choices and design the game for exactly what I want.”
Nothing but pure hypocrisy.
Incorrect.
First, if they wanted WPvP they would be on the WPvP the only one that has existed for several expansions.
Second, they aren’t being punished. They would be getting free transfers to the playstyle they want. That is a saving them not punishing them.
Third, they are the minority, if they exist. So they would move not the majority.
While true, in reality it doesn’t work that way. Any player who rolled on a PvP realm with the specific goal of WPvP would quickly come to realize the realm’s imbalance and would reroll on another realm in which faction balance existed. Even the newest player would notice the faction imbalance, ask others about it, decide whether or not they care about WPvP to relevel to 30 (which is uninvested at this point), and if choosing they care about it would figure out which realm they should make a character on to get the gameplay they want.
This isn’t 2004. That information is readily available.
It is not unfair to ask an uninvested player to change realms to play where the play they want would be located.
It is unfair to change the dynamic of the realm because you feel that players who have decided those dynamics don’t get a say in what those dynamics are 4 years after those dynamics. 6 years after the consequence that made them move to these dynamics occur.
What you definitely don’t do even if you want to stick your fingers in your ear and go “nah nah nah it is pvp nah nah nah I don’t care that all of choose not to” is further punish a majority of those players by stripping them of their guild, their achievements of those guilds, the gold they invested into their banks… and potentially both their player and guild names.
They accepted those risk, those risks occurred, they felt the consequences of those risk, and took the only action they could to fix it by Blizzards rules.
Merging realmds does not in any way maintain the integrity of them. It erases them entirely and screw over 75% of the playerbase at a minimum.
All in an attempt to force the majority to play the way the minority want. Instead of you know doing the logical thing of allowing those like-minded players to play together.
The only time you merge realms is when on of those realms are dead… not when the realms you are trying to merge are most alive realms who both do not wish to be merged.
They rolled on a PvP server.
Since they are the ones who selected the appropriate server, they wanted PvP and therefore chose a PvP server. Players who prefer PvE should have selected a PvE server.
I’m done.
The solution to faction imbalance and WPvP has not and never will be merging realms. That is the absolute worse choice anyone could make.
The argument that “They choose PvP” is valid because players who rolled on PvP servers accepted the risks and challenges associated with it. This is a fundamental point that cannot be ignored.
Claiming that I don’t want a discussion is unfounded. I’m not sure what you consider a discussion but by definition that was a discussion.
The reality of the situation is that PvP servers were designed for world PvP, and players who joined these servers did so with the expectation of engaging in PvP interactions.
The health of the game is important, and maintaining the integrity of PvP servers is crucial for players who value world PvP.
The argument contradicts itself by acknowledging that players who wanted WPvP grouped together on a singular realm, yet opposing the idea of merging realms to maintain faction balance.
Players who chose to segregate themselves did so as a response to the challenges they faced, such as an unstable economy, lack of players to raid with or group with, and the limited options available for playing on a PvP server. However, this doesn’t change the fact that PvP servers should maintain their intended purpose.
The solution to faction imbalance and WPvP should involve addressing the root causes of the imbalance rather than dismissing the original purpose of PvP servers.
Players made the choice to roll on PvP servers, accepting the associated risks and challenges.
Maintaining the integrity of PvP servers is crucial for providing a balanced and enjoyable experience for all players.
PPGF
It is not a valid argument. The reason that is it is not a valid argument is because these are not fresh realms. These are realms that have existed for six years. Realms that the player based waited for Blizzard to do something for two years before taking action themselves. In some extreme cases they didn’t even wait that long.
Yes when rolling on and transferring to the realms they accepted the risks of someone rolling on the opposite faction and killing them because they thought it would be fun to gank unsuspecting players.
What they did not sign up for is to potentially lose their name, potentially lose their guild name, to lose their guild achievements, to have their economy messed with, to have to pay Blizzard to move once against after having done so before… in some cases two to three times at this point.
No they didn’t sign up for that.
The risks and challenges associated with rolling on a realm are entirely dependent on the circumstances at the time a person joins that realm. It doesn’t remain static as the reality of the situation changes over time.
No, it isn’t unfounded when you don’t discuss. You just say…
That isn’t a discussion. That is a statement. Especially when you ignore the points of the other party and just reiterate this one thing.
No, that is in no way the reality of the situation. That was the reality of the situation in August 2019.
The reality of the situation today, is that play made the choice based on the number of players of their faction on faction-imbalanced realms. Why is this? Because their own realm died, and they didn’t want to have to move again.
Why exactly do you think the mega server boomed at the same time Blizzard closed realms down during TBC and during Wrath. The decisions player made was not a case of PvE or PvP. They choice they made was “Is this realm going to die?” and “Do I want a to play on a mega server or just a large server”.
The sole exception was the remain WPvP who made their choice to group together way from those other two parties.
A person making a choice today isn’t decided based on PvE or PvP they are making it based on the reality that all but one realm is effectively a PvP realm and on what size of realm they want to play on.
If you think the health of the game is important. You wouldn’t be suggesting that we drive away a large number of players to satisfy a small numbers of players that can be satisfied in other ways.
If they can’t be satisfied by playing together… and they need to prey on the people who do not want WPvP. Then they simply do not matter. You don’t get to have your own fun at the cost of another player’s fun. That is exactly what ruined WPvP for classic in the first place.
It is no way contradicts itself. Players who want to WPvP grouping together on a singular realm is not the opposite of another group of players who did not want to WPvP grouping together with other people who don’t want to WPvP on a separate realm.
The contradiction comes in when you then take that non-WPvP group that have clearly shown they don’t want WPvP, tell them to bad you actually do want WPvP then forcing them together by stripping away one group names, guilds, banks, etc. Then saying “Look I fixed it” no. You didn’t give WPvP players what they wanted, You didn’t solved faction balance, You didn’t keep the integrity of the realms. All you have done is create an additional issue that will cause a good chunk of players to stop playing and the remaining players to have to pay to fix what they already paid to fix.
Yeah you are right it doesn’t. change the fact that PvP servers should maintain their intended purpose. That is why these clearly PvE realms to be reclassified as the PvE realms that they are and have been for four years now.
Surprise PvP realms now maintain their intended purpose.
You talk a lot about the cruciality of providing and enjoyable experience for all players while actively trying to put a majority of players into an environment that they have actively shown not to enjoy under the guise of once PvP always PvP.
So which is it. Do you want the players to be able to enjoy themselves or do you want to force WPvP. You factually cannot have both. They are polar opposites at this very moment.
You want to address the root cause of the faction imbalance on realms? You need to invite a time machine go back to Phase 2 and have Blizzard start banning degenerate players.
You want to address the root cause now? You want the players to have an enjoyable experience? You implement sharding and war mode right now. While war mode is not active you only see players of your own realm. While war mode is active you get put onto a map with everyone else that has war mode active.
That quite franking is the only solution that makes all parties happy. Those who don’t want WPvP don’t have to deal with it, Those who do want WPvP get it, Those who want a mega realm can still have it, and those who want a smaller community can still have it.
As I’ve said before merging is never the solution for anything, and should only be used in the event of a realm being shut down.
Another excellent post. You make good clear rational arguments to support your opinions. Just don’t get too frustrated when some of those you’re talking to don’t respond in kind. Rational debate is not the norm here.
This is an important point. It’s what happened to my Bloodsail guild. When the leaders asked if we wanted to transfer we all agreed we needed to because Bloodsail was getting to small to effectively find groups to do the heroic dungeons. The disagreement was about where to go. Most of the guild wanted Mankirk because it was the largest pve server at the time. They were worried if the went to a medium or small server they’d have to pay to transfer again if it died. I didn’t transfer with my guild. A couple months later I transferred to Atiesh. I’d rather risk going to a medium server than play on a mega-server. Two years later I had to switch factions because Atiesh horde side died. I don’t think mega-servers were created because players wanted them. Some do, but many picked the mega-servers just because they were afraid if they didn’t they’d end up having to transfer again.
that would mean a new pvp server has to be created. PVE rebrand, needs a new server(s). at this point most on the 99%'s would not be going omg…its pve server! Run away.
And blizzard will probably not make it free moves.
We’d have the grobb scenario, again. ever since tbcc allowed realm moves…the response to I want true wpvp has been move to/reroll grobb.
Which people have not wanted to pay for in droves lol. 2019 to tbcc saw a large migration of crews who could give a rat’s butt about RP. They were willing to pay for it, blizzard likes money. or they rerolled for free.
Those movers showed they way to getting wpvp. and many said well I don’t want to do that.
and this new new pvp server, would have locks. Like anniversary. so now cata would get to be like anniversary.
It has Nighslayer (and Maladath, they exist, sort of lol) players ranting on how they can’t make horde most of the time. Or maybe this new cata pvp server would go alliance heavy.
either way, blizzards balance control of hard cutoff to dominant faction creation also made people unhappy.
Why can’t I make horde! Answer: its already showing horde bias.
How do you not make yet another 80/20 server. Lock that crap down at 60/40 (or whatever the cut off is).
Since the entire classic population is decreasing, merge all the servers together and add Warmode. This way, players who want WPVP can have it, and those who don’t, won’t.
Just fixed 2 problems with 1 solution.
Anyone who has played this game knows that significant numbers of players don’t like mega-servers. If you force them to merge some will quit further decreasing the classic population. Since I don’t play on pvp servers I don’t know how pvp players feel about warmode but I suspect that will cause some pvp-ers to quit too. You’ve taken what I see as the biggest problem in classic, decreasing population, and made it worse.
Some players may have concerns about merging all Cataclysm Classic servers into a single mega-server and adding Warmode, there are several points that need to be addressed:
TLDR Version - merging all Cataclysm Classic servers into one mega-server and adding Warmode is a practical solution that addresses faction imbalance and population issues while providing flexibility and options for different playstyles. It ensures a balanced and engaging experience for all players and supports the long-term health and sustainability of the game. Although some players may be unhappy with the changes, it is crucial to prioritize what is best for the game as a whole.
There is only one point that needs to be considered before all others. Will forcing all players onto one mega-server decrease the number of players? If the answer is yes none of your points are worth considering. Since it’s very clear to anyone paying attention the answer is yes all your points are moot.
The assumption that merging all players onto one mega-server will inevitably lead to a decrease in the number of players is speculative. Nevertheless, players quit for various reasons every day. It is ultimately about doing what is best for the health of the game.
The most important thing to do for the health of an MMO is not do things that cause players to quit. You never actually concern yourself with the health of the game. You just want what ever meets your selfish desires.
Doing nothing will cause players to quit.
Well yeah it would require a new pvp server… or just rebrand Grobbulus to that.
Honestly at this point (with a care for the player base as opposed to just money), I’d bring the number of realms down to three, maybe four. The mega pve realm, a smaller pve realm (Would cause queues much faster so online play would replicate a small realm for those who like and want that), a PvP (with enforced faction balancing), and maybe an RP realm.
that would be best the way really.
See for these ideas Many I gather think bene/faer.
Okay, west side has whitemane/grob. And looks at a broken grobb in a merger. Maybe fix 2 servers east coast. and grobb is for the horde!
There isn’t one and grobbulus is dead
Grobbulus still has a raiding scene and 3500+ pop according to IF with a almost 50/50 faction ratio.
It just seems dead cause theres literally nothing to do in cata aside from raid log. You’ll see a decent population jump when mop comes out and then it dies down again after a few months
The bandwagon players will return, then they will leave again, and when a new phase launches, Blizzard will cater to them. They will come back, and the cycle will continue. This is, without a doubt, the definition of insanity.