Megathread: The Other Half of the Dragon Fantasy - DRAKONIDS

Or, y’know, be warriors. Wear armor, use shields, all that jazz.

‘Natural draconic gifts’ resulting in their getting wrecked in the instant something gets close enough to sneeze on them might be worth discarding to Dracthyr that want to take more than one hit in close combat.

Or, you know, wear armour, use shields… and fly around, using their breath weapon, and augmenting their defenses with their natural draconic spellcasting that is innate to every Dracthyr. Too bad you can’t really do that with any of the playable classes, though. Prime real estate for a fourth Evoker spec, though! :slight_smile:

Evoker is very clearly not a tank class. This has been made clear by the addition of Aug, not anything capable of actually surviving any real enemy attention.

Again, not every Dracthyr is an Evoker. Are those non-Evokers still Dracthyr? Are they still expected to fight, even though they are very much not Evokers?

It sounds like those non-Evoker Dracthyr should strongly consider other career choices.

Not until it has a tank spec. :slight_smile: We very clearly see other Dracthyr using shields in tandem with protective Black Dragonflight magic in the Forgotten Reach, however. That’s the only way that it would work for a Dracthyr to act as a tank, unless they make a class exclusively for a Dracthyr tank which would be entirely unreasonable.

Not all Dracthyr are Evokers, but all Dracthyr use their breath weapons, physiology, and at least one school of draconic magic. It’s inherent. They could use them in tandem with the abilities of other classes, sure, but it wouldn’t make much sense to use those class abilities in isolation from their inherent abilities.

As we see in the Forgotten Reach.

Just like most NPCs, they cannot be adequately represented by a playable class. They are all, essentially, lesser Evokers that may or may not blend their abilities with different types of armour or weapons. But they do not forego their inherent Dracthyr abilities any more than a Mage would forego legs.

All Dracthyr use draconic magic. Evokers are just the best - or the most flexible - at doing so. Using draconic magic is the sole domain of the Evoker - it is inherent to all Dracthyr.

I don’t know what’s going on here but as it stands the ‘Dragon Knight’ fantasy has been sorely missing in Warcraft for a while now. We only got some remnant of that from the Prot warrior artifact in Legion but that’s been abandoned since.

Dracthyr have the chance to fulfill that fantasy but right now it just feels like a missed opportunity and even more so as DF hits the epilogue with no mention of expanded class selection or transmog.

Or Drakonid!

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Every single Blood Elf is capable of manipulating Arcane energy, yet scores of Blood Elves deign to become classes other than Mages despite this natural inclination. The Dracthyr would be no different; there would be those gifted with draconic power, those would naturally be Evokers. There would be others that lack that proficiency with their draconic power or, perhaps, even lack it entirely! Those would be non-Evokers. Those would be the Dracthyr that aren’t capable of focusing their energy on spellcraft. Those would be the Dracthyr that can’t generate as potent a breath. Those would be the Dracthyr whose wings aren’t as strong as the others’. Whether due to poor training, bad genetics, or whatever other origin, those Dracthyr would be incentivized to choose another career path than Evoker.

I agree. I think Dracthyr should absolutely be able to wear heavier armor, wield heavier weaponry, know how to use shields, and otherwise adapt to their battlefield beyond just hoping none of their enemies deign to close to within 5 yards or retreat to more than 25 yards. For ‘super-soldiers’, they’re completely one-dimensional which, uh, is not what you want from what are effectively your ‘special forces’.

They literally don’t exist. I know your headcanon desperately wants them to, but again, I encourage you to create a Dracthyr and go through their story. No skipping cutscenes. And pay attention the next time you do the campaign in the Forbidden Reach and Zaralek.

Those Dracthyr exist in the game only as dead skeletons of discarded failures or interesting aberrations preserved in Aberrus. They do not represent any of the Dracthyr that were put into stasis by Neltharion.

You have a few misconceptions that need to be cleared up. Otherwise, I can only assume that you are choosing ignorance as the story as told does not support the narrative you’re pushing.

That’s the solution, right there. A big ol’ Drakonid Paladin would be absolutely fantastic. That silhouette fulfills a fantasy that Dracthyr never could - even if they compromised on their vision and gave Dracthyr more classes.

Drakonid embody the sheer presence and physicality of dragons.

The existence of the Weyerns disagrees with you, as well as a particularly choice quote from an Edict that you seem to be conveniently forgetting. Posting in its entirety:

"Every dracthyr is an expert soldier. Whatever weyrn they serve, they use their talents to defend dragonkind in obedience to the Earth-Warder.

Yet even among such illustrious ranks, there are a select few who transcend the skills of their kin. Who are able to master the specialties of all weyrns and shift between roles at will.

These are the evokers. The best of the best, finest of the finest.

These elite forces possess the rare potential to focus their essences into an instrument of preservation or a weapon of devastation.

The journey to such mastery is long, and few dracthyr can see this path through. But those who learn to harness their full potential shall be honored with the title of evoker."

Maybe you’re the one in need of refreshing on your own lore. Restart that dragon and try again. This time, don’t skip cutscenes and collectables, now.

See the quote above and learn your own lore.

EDIT: ‘Expert soldiers’ that have no idea how a shield works. Laughable.

You do realize that your own quote disproves your argument, right? Evokers transcend the weyrn specializations. But all those members of those specializations specialize in at least one type of draconic spellcasting. And yes, they may use more equipment than Evokers utilize. But they don’t ignore their innate abilities. These Dracthyr, like many NPCs, cannot be emulated and pigeonholed by any playable class.

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In what way does that quote somehow disprove that not every Dracthyr is an evoker? For real, how are you somehow coming to the conclusion that ‘few dracthyr can see this path through’ somehow means ‘oh but all actually Dracthyr are Evokers.’

There are Dracthyr that just don’t cut it as far as being an Evoker. We know this. There are living Dracthyr that failed to become Evokers. Therefore, it would make sense for those Dracthyr to try a different career. Maybe they’d be better suited as a Warrior, or a Rogue, or a Mage, or a Priest, or a Hunter.

Again, just because the class they’d follow wouldn’t take advantage of their natural abilities doesn’t mean they’re a bad fit for it. It just means they chose a different path than most of their kin. Which is the entire point of expanding class selections.

Not every Dracthyr is an Evoker (utilizing every flight’s power), but every Dracthyr utilizes at least one flight’s power. There’s no convincing way to make those Dracthyr playable, though, as you’d have to ignore that inherent and omnipresent component of their biology.

Hence Drakonid making a much more viable option for extending the draconic fantasy to other classes without any retconning needed.

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Still supporting this thread. I want to play a Drakonid so bad!

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A Dracthyr utilizing or even just harboring sensitivity and potential with a specific flight’s power may direct them to particular classes. Feeling Blue? Mage would probably be within their grasp if they can’t master the other colors. Black-aspected? Sounds pretty tanky, bet you’d do even better with armor training and gear. Green? A deep connection to nature seems like a great jump-off point for a Druid or Hunter. Bronze? Mage again, but could see potential with Rogues or even some time-centric Warlocks (‘buying time’ as it were). Red? Any class with a healing spec, but a drive to protect life opens them to pretty much every class out there.

Lookie there, no retcons required.

You’re limiting them to just being pale imitations of dragons when they could be anything.

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Look at NPCs. You’re entirely right that non-Evoker Dracthyr meld their inherent draconic talents with other types of skillsets. But the point is, they meld those skillsets with their inherent draconic talents. Giving them access to other classes locks them out of accessing those inherent draconic talents. You cannot play as a Warrior that supplements themself with black dragonflight magic, nor a Mage that supplements themself with blue. As such, unless we get subclasses and force all Dracthyr to only subclass Evoker, it makes no sense to expand their class selection.

And that’s why Drakonid are the solution to expanding the playable draconic fantasy.

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Or Blizzard better defines what’s an Evoker skill and what’s a Dracthyr racial and goes from there. Once we have a clearer idea of what’s a racial ability and what’s an Evoker class skill, we can better define what alternative-class Dracthyr would function like. That said, your insistence on Dracthyr using draconic magic when, well, they might not be that good at it is a fool’s errand. If a Human’s not good at magic, they usually pick up a weapon and wear armor. So too would a Dracthyr that finds ‘oh, hey, I’m not really all that amazing at this magic thing and here’re other characters that have found great success with martial prowess, maybe I should explore that instead!’

Holding Dracthyr class options hostage for Drakonid playability doesn’t expand the draconic fantasy, it divides it. Especially if Drakonid pick up magic classes (and they’d be guaranteed to have Hunter, Mage, Priest, Rogue, and Warrior at least).

I found a Dracthyr that doesn’t use draconic magic in-game:

In the fields of discarded experiments. All living Dracthyr use draconic magic. That’s the whole point of the species.

Maybe in a generation or two (if they can even procreate) there’ll be a few stunted examples that can’t use draconic magic. But as is? Every living Dracthyr - playable or otherwise - uses draconic magic.

Even the Dracthyr tank NPCs that can escort you for a world quest. Just because they picked up a shield does not mean they shirk their ability to draw on the defensive magic of the black dragonflight. And that has no playable analogue at present.

Making Dracthyr Warriors would not represent non-Evoker Dracthyr. There is no playable equivalent. They don’t fit into the current roster. Which is why the Evoker class was created in the first place.

Now you’re getting it. The playable dragon fantasy was very deliberately cut in two in order to make playable dragons viable. Dracthyr exist as a compromise to focus on the most uniquely draconic elements. Drakonid represent everything that was left by the wayside. Making them both playable is the most holistic option viable outside of playable dragons outright. That’s the entire premise of this thread.

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Nothing exists until it does. Someone, at some point, is the first doer of a thing. Dracthyr of other classes haven’t happened yet, only because Blizzard tried to take the lazy way out and skip out on making an actual race and all of the work that goes into it. Now they’re getting called on it and hopefully they see reason and do the work that goes into making an actual race:

  • Give them real class options instead of trying to hawk a race as a hive-mind with absolutely no dissidents
  • Actually let them mog
  • Actually define what is a Dracthyr racial and what is an Evoker skill

That Blizzard tried to skimp on this is atrocious and that people are trying to defend it is laughable.

Ah yes. That’s what I want out of my racial options; compromise. 'Oh, you could have playable dragon-folk buuut we’ve decided to artificially divide them for no good reason. One’s a dead-end race with no future and the other can’t fly. Enjoy your dragon fantasy!’

That is beyond garbage and lame and you betray your own interests in defending this trash.

Drakonid would be a fine addition, but not if they’re offered as ‘replacement Dracthyr’. That is beyond stupid and lame. The Dracthyr are not the Borg, and classes are not something you have to be born into to learn. ‘Dracthyr would never forsake their draconic magic!’ If their magic isn’t working, then that Dracthyr is a moron to try and stick with it and not switch to a class they’d be good at.

Can you elaborate on this? This is new info for me.