Master Marksman

Are consecutive crits supposed to stack or not?
If I crit Aimed Shot the target bleeds for 70 odd damage over the duration.
After checking the debuff after critting on Chimera Shot the debuff now reads Bleeding for 22 damage.

Is it simply replacing the previous crit bleed with the latest crit bleed?
If that’s the case,doesn’t that mean that this talent is insanely underwhelming unless you only crit your Aimed Shots and not Rapid Fire/Arcane/Chimera Shot/Steady Shot?

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Last I tested it on the beta, it rolls like Ignite. I can test a bit later tonight after raid.

Edit: This was my prior test on it, back on 5 September:

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Mmm I see.
I must be imagining things then.
Thanks for the confirmation.

After messing around with the Rylaks in Frostfire Ridge.
Chimera Shot is adding additional damage to Master Marksman whether or not it was the first ability to crit
But Rapid Fire crits are reducing the bleed damage from Master Marksman instead of increasing it.
Sometimes even resetting it down to numbers as if it were only Rapid Fire crit bleeds


Wouldn’t be surprised if multiple crits in quick succession bug it. I’ll do some testing later.


In my experience, the bleed effect does stack with each crit, it is pitifully low at first but it does add up each time you land a crit with whatever ability. I think the reason the duration is low because you can apply more bleed damage to begin with.

I used to be about having more haste than crit before prepatch but now it gives you utter incentive to go purely Crit and Mastery. And my god, it really sure shows it when I do raids.

I just tested with using Aimed Shot crits from above Careful Aim range.
Initial Bleed was ticking for 111,but after firing off a bunch of Chimera Shots and getting a crit the damage was back down to 65.

So unless it’s not working properly for characters below max level,there is something fishy going on with Master Marksman.

Does sound pretty weird, I haven’t exclusively tested it myself other than quickly checking and seeing that damage go up with each crit. And I haven’t check today either because I was more focused on another class. So maybe did get bugged or I’m just being stupid to assume.

Yes, but rolling can work like that. For example, if I crit for, say, 5k, 15% of that is 750. Master Marksman ticks 3 times baseline, so 250 per tick. If it ticks twice, it now has 1 tick of 250 damage remaining. If I then crit Steady Shot for, say, 1k, that adds 150 damage to it. The new DoT will be 150 + 250 = 400 damage, over 4 ticks (because refreshed DoTs have 1 more tick than the base one, unless they pandemic), meaning only 100 damage per tick. The damage per tick decreased, but no damage was lost. It’s just that when it is refreshed, the damage is re-averaged over 4 ticks, and if it’s a lower damage ability that refreshed it, the new DoT will have less damage per tick despite not actually losing damage.

I tested it just now on the beta, and everything appears to be working exactly as expected:

Total critical damage was 6166 + 612 + 616 + 624 + 658 + 681 = 9357 (also, I separately tested, neither Ancient Flame or Auto-Shot trigger it, so they are excluded from that total). That should leave a DoT totaling 1403.55. Actual bleed was 277 + 282 + 282 + 282 + 282 = 1405, right in line with expected.


Here’s an example:

I crit an Aimed Shot, let it tick twice, then crit an Arcane Shot. The DoT tick dropped considerably, from 306 to 233. However, the total DoT damage done was 1544, and the total crit damage was 10292. 1544 is 15.002% of 10292. So even though the tick damage itself dropped, the total damage was as expected. Rolling can just be weird like that.


I’m probably misunderstanding how it works then.
But I’m not playing on the beta so there’s that too.

So basically the dot tick duration refreshes,the damage number in the tooltip drops,but the initial damage from the first tick keeps ticking down in the back but doesn’t show in the combat log but counts the total damage from the encounter from all bleed effects?

Not quite. The bleeds aren’t separate. The way rolling (ie. Ignite) mechanics work is that, when the DoT is refresh, it takes all of the damage that the existing DoT has not yet done, adds it to the damage of the new DoT, and then averages the total sum over the normal number of ticks + 1 (so 4 ticks over 8s for MaMa).

As above, if I crit for 5000 and thus have a DoT with a total damage of 750, that’s 250 per tick for 3 ticks. If it ticks twice, that’s 500 of the 750 damage, so it has 1 tick of 250 remaining. If I then refresh it with a 1000 crit and thus a new DoT that should deal 150 damage total (50/tick), it takes the total of the new DoT (150) and adds it to the total remaining on the existing DoT (250), for a total of 400. The new DoT then does 400 total damage, which is the new DoT plus what hasn’t been done yet from the old, and it does it over 4 ticks instead of the normal 3, so 100 damage per tick.

You’d see this:

Aimed Shot hit [Target Dummy] 5,000 Physical. (Critical)
Master Marksman damaged [Target Dummy] 250 Physical.
Master Marksman damaged [Target Dummy] 250 Physical.
Steady Shot hit [Target Dummy] 1000 Physical. (Critical)
Master Marksman damaged [Target Dummy] 100 Physical.
Master Marksman damaged [Target Dummy] 100 Physical.
Master Marksman damaged [Target Dummy] 100 Physical.
Master Marksman damaged [Target Dummy] 100 Physical.

The damage per tick dropped considerably, but the total DoT damage, 900, is exactly 15% of the total critical damage, 6000. The DoT damage is reduced because what would have been a 250 damage tick is now spread over the 4 new ticks, but that damage is added to the damage the new DoT provided.

That makes sense.

Why is the DPS for this talent so low for me? Average at the 6-8th position in the DPS chart while I have seen other people have 2nd-3rd top DPS in the chart? how did they do it?

heck yeah 3 year necro

well without looking at your charcter/the hunters youre looking at, its hard to see.


Because youre a Necro-Mage and not a hunter?