I’ve faced a few in 2s messing with my rdruid friend that have like 2700 xp. They are really hard to play against.
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I also stay incredibly loyal to my classes… It is just coincidence that the ones Im loyal to are all super represented at the time of loyalty.
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Ok but I watched a druid on the 16th (S1 DF glad mount) open full view of 2 dps on the opposite healer and go into rage quit mode when the mage and I punished him for it in the 4th game of the lobby, which he proceeded to quit. That was every single game btw, rduid yolo bash/clone attempt on healer on open. No cover cc on me or my partner when he was on the opposite team and I had to be super fast to get cc out to cover him when I realized what he was doing.
There are things you can’t do with good players, not saying your buddy is doing this what I’m saying is that past a certain point if you do certain things good players will punish you. I’ve seen a lot of ‘high rated’ players do things that 1400 players know not to do the last few seasons, only in solo though.
Rating isn’t any really good indicator that people can play against a specific class well. I have serious issues playing into Ret/War on all my toons, that’s moreso a me issue at this point.
Rogue isn’t and has never been a popular class. So I’m not totally shocked that people don’t know how to deal with them.
??? What lol
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Statistically one of the lowest reps for class in the history of the game my brother.
Got a slight bump this season after the rework, still ultra low rep though.
Only things lower are usually Warlock , Shaman and Monk.
On topic, if 3 melee specs out of 7 are bad, and bad into everything then perhaps they need to be designed in such a way that they’re not intentionally bad.
Like if Survival’s defensive kit is based on or the same as MM/BM its pretty easy to see where the flaw is, because one of those is mostly melee while the other two are pure ranged.
This is a really odd take. Rogue has been one of the most popular specs in pvp since the beginning. Saying people don’t know how to deal with them is pretty crazy. There is nothing special to learn. Rogues and sub specifically just have tons of tools that make them hard to target right now.
This is false. Even going as far back as cata, rogues were the most dominate spec on the ladder and the most played. During mop they were extremely strong and rogues have ALWAYS been competitive. It’s one of the few classes that manages to always be relevant in arena.
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Usually they’re under 5% total of the ladder in any measure except the tip-top where Nahj/Kalivsh/Peeka/Whazz live.
The most popular (but not necessarily best) are Mage/Hunter/Pally/Warrior. Rduid/Rsham/Hpal/Disc or Holy historically own 15-25% of the ladder as well.
That chart you linked in your OP, is there one that correlates fist blood to the number of people playing the spec in pvp? That may give you a better picture of what I’m talking about.
What year is it?
What’s the context of the mini exchange I was having with BC and Warzog? Rogues being unkillable? Zero counter play? Like they were rumored to be in that season?
Idiot doesn’t even cover it. Not going to derail anymore so enjoy yelling into the wind.
The context was current lobbies
Not lobbies in '22
Rogues are hard to balance because they have higher skill floors.
With all the tools they have they fumble excessively at the low end and control entire teams at higher skill levels.
Again why do you talk down to anyone, you’re not a subject matter expert by any means because someone couldn’t read veil of midnight’s tooltip properly
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My entire point is that if you let the rogue do that you aren’t as skilled as you think you are. I see plenty of games at high rating when people shrug off the rogue.
Lets not pretend people aren’t farming wins off things like Ele bots, instant Destro damage, Warriors being hard to peel etc, so it stands to reason that when you get into a match were the other team can’t pve you down they’re going to go to other methods to win. Color me shocked when people want to zug on casters/melee and get punished for it, or when the whole team uses trinket/wall in open and get punished for it.
90% of the arena forum isn’t just somebody my guy.
What amazes me is that should have made people happy that I was right but nope, because I specifically pointed it out. Which is actually laughable. Or even worse trash cans wanted rogues to get nerfed into the dirt knowing how to counter them.
Same goes for everyone posting here, so not sure why you single me out other than you want your narrative and I’m not letting you have it. That’s a you issue. You don’t like me feel free to use the ignore feature, it works great.
Sure, lots of specs are. This doesn’t mean people don’t know how to play against them.
That number is ignoring spec population.
If you’re actually arguing that sub, or rogues in general, are somehow… good targets, I’m not sure what to say. They are easily one of the toughest to kill right now.
Just curious, did you see the latest RSS tournament that was absolutely dominated by a sub rogue?
Not really, and the posts about them in forum contradict that pretty hard to be honest. I think it may be a small vocal group making extra loud noise but then I go to X or reddit and see alot of the same so…fair bet that most people can’t play into them properly at this point. Which isn’t to say that I’m perfect into them.
Not if you go at them at the proper time, I was blowing them up on my priest in a few seconds once cloak was gone or sometimes w/o cloak in a stun because they didn’t realize I had cds going. These were 2200+ players in reg 3’s in the first week of season this season so not tip top but they should have been good enough to avoid that.
They aren’t an all the time target, same as any other class. Which isn’t to say they’re unpeelable or unbeatable or unkillable.
You mean prior to two hard nerfs, with one of the best players in the game (as I’ve heard him called) playing the rogue?
My brother we always come back to the same thing with rogue. Thats a specific player. If the class was as good as everyone here thinks it would have DH/DK/Rdiud rep, high skill cap or not and it would be high rep from 0-2400. Not 12 some odd people @2200+
Nahj, who is rather famous for calling out rogue when it’s even close to OP says they’re barely viable atm. That doesn’t mean it’s true, but when you start looking at the complaints from a logical standpoint not an emotional one you may see what I do; that people make layerd mistakes playing into rogues and because they have a high skill cap they don’t feel that till later on b/c the lower rated rogues won’t or can’t capitalize on that mistake to punish or end a game.
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I mentioned that the rep jumped up after the rework, I get if you didn’t see it b/c this has been a long conversation.
Top 5k isn’t overall rep or reflective of that either. Same issue as the Arena mate stats I linked, my point there was they don’t have a lot of rep on the ladder till 2300+.
Overall they’re one of the lowest repped classes.
5 years ago, but bottom 5 overall.
IDK how accurate that is tbh, seems like hunter and pally should be higher. Would be good if we had this by expac.
Top 5k seems a bad idea when we have such low participation as well.
Wrong. Fdk dev mw is literally free gladiator late season if you know how to do the go.
Just another example of representation and death statistics being almost meaningless because destro is the hardest to kill spec in that screenshot when played clean defensivley
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Rogues just never fail to be the most unbelievably delusional players in the entire pvp playerbase
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We r fine tho
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but if you look at the arena mate stats, the 2s rep is significantly higher than the 3s rep and the 3s rep could have more to do with the meta than rogue power/popularity
top 5k from an RSS standpoint is the most accurate depiction of the ladder. top 5k in US/EU 2v2 bottoms out at ~1900, EU 3v3 bottoms out at 1867 while US bottoms out at 1941 which puts it relatively on par with what you linked, tho what you linked doesn’t combine the 2 regions
meanwhile bottom of US sin rogue is 288, outlaw is 9, sub is 384. EU sin rogue is 319, outlaw is 16, and sub is 479
so no, top 5k is incredibly accurate because of RSS given the vast majority of players on the ladder in general play RSS
that link doesn’t break down PvE and PvP and i’m sure we can all agree that rogue hasn’t had much time at the top of the PvE landscape i.e. they’ve never been so broken that they call for rogue stacking in raid outside of spine of deathwing
brother you should’ve taken the time to actually look through the numbers before making this statement
quick edit- i want to make sure that i say that rep is a dog water way to argue anything because 100+ factors influence the representation of a given class/spec
i am merely pointing out that it appeared you were trying to use rep to argue whether sub or rogue was not as strong as others seem to think, but your framing of the stats doesn’t paint an accurate picture
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o.o
Rogues aren’t that difficult to play, especially these days. Overall, the game has continued to add complexity for whatever reason. That said, the rogue play style isn’t something most people enjoy.
I’m well aware of what it takes to kill rogues. They are awful targets. This isn’t debatable. 
I would need to see proof of that opinion. That makes absolutely no sense. Regardless, the evidence is in the numbers. Rogues, at least sub and combat, are awful targets.
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The truth is that nobody is driving pvp anymore.
Nobody is steering the ship.
They’re all working on the next xpac probably
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