I think the big difference between him and Malfurion is yes, in game he is suppose to be as big of a deal as Thrall, but he never seem to end up that way. Or more precisely unlike Thrall he never hog the spotlight that you could never get away from him. In Thrall’s case, unless you didnt raid dragon soul(and if you didn’t do so, you had next to no other end game content). Hell, his main questline, Leyara’s necklace, can easily be dismissed after you do it once. Thrall’s elemental bond quest was something next to unavoidable if you want the quick boost from the epic cape.
If you want to complain why I openly dismissed Malfurion’s involvement in the Molten Front, take it up with Droité. If somehow Vol’jin rebellion can easily be dismissed as “neutral” content/content that shouldnt matter in her game of which faction suffered more than neither should Malfurion’s.
I mean ALOT of the ‘neutral characters’ in past expansions have been alliance leaning or have a heavy alliance background. Lets looks at the end of legion, sure Velen lead the charge, and 100% should of had major story line in argus, him and his people had a HUGE bone to pick with the burning legion.
But, where were the orcs and blood elfs in argus? I mean those two races have major bones to pick with the burning legion too. The only character t he horde really had there was lady Liadrin just standing in the background doing nothing. No notable horde participation happened in argus.
I was pretty pumped to help the belfs and orcs along with the draenei, but I only helped the draenei. The burning legion nearly destroyed the orcs and blood elfs, and whats the hordes ‘big climax in taking down the burning legion?’ Standing in the background doing nothing.
Thats the insulting part.
Im not asking for the alliance player to work with more horde centric characters or anything like that at all. But you’re being disingenuous saying the horde almost never work with alliance heavy characters. Heck nearly every expansion the ‘neutral’ storyline character has been mangi type character, steeped in alliance lore.
Which is perfectly in line with a character that’s been around for 20+ years.
The major aspect of a Mary Sue is that it has to be unearned. There are few characters in Warcraft that have had as much time spent on them as Sylvanas.
Sylvanas isn’t a villain though, they said that she isn’t evil and that she won’t die, which means redemption.
No characters got close to as much screentime as Sylvanas, and no character got to commit as many crimes and annihilate entire playable races without being called evil or ever suffering any loss. Instead even being immune to death or anything that goes against her.
I remember at the start of BfA they said she was an ‘anti-hero’, but remember also at the start of BfA they said ‘morally grey’ and that dident happen at all in the context of horde v alliance.
Travis: Because Sylvanas is not evil. In the story for her, it’s much more. She’s definitely aggressive, and she definitely believes in having power and control, but I also think that she does take seriously the representation of the Horde. She has a different perspective which is that the Horde will never be safe until the Alliance is wiped out. But, is she acting in a cruel, mustache-twirling evil way? Not really, she’s just trying to defend her people.
If genocide and torture of innocents isn’t evil, even if it’s against a race the writers don’t like, then what is?
I think, to put it mildly, that it was also partly the circumstances.
In Argus we had two new factions introduced, each with its own leaders. I would have looked forward to a stronger orc focus against Kil’jaeden, but at that time there were actually no great Orc characters and Thrall gave up his power. Saurfang was in the Warrior Hall and nearly dead. To say the least, there was no one significant who could have taken over this role, which is a pity.
And with the blood elves, I would have looked forward to Rommath rather than Liadrin. But even there the beef is more with Kil’jaeden who created the Scourge in the form of the Lich King and triggered all the events. (Kael’Thas, fall of QT)
In the end, I would have assigned 8.2 and Kil’Jaeden with the following characters
Rommath (Bloodelf)
Liadrin (Bloodelf
Veleen
Illidan
Thura (Orc, Give her a real role, blizz! She have a Powerfull weapon, give her a proper model)
I would have let Khadgar be seriously and fatally injured in the attack of Dalaran and given Rommath that role in return in 8.2
When did they say that? At the beginning of BfA when they were straight up lying about what was going to happen or at the end when she was like screw the horde and bailed.
Sounds like a rather dated quote (they really did mislead pretty much everyone going into BfA and this quote sounds like its from around that timeframe), unless they plan on redeeming her in shadowlands somehow. But that is yet to be seen and unfortunately rather unlikely.
Can you link a video or something liek an interview where he says this sutff?
As far as I know it didn’t happen that often. I didn’t play horde until the last 2 expansions.
One again, character relevance. How can you be mad about Velen taking the overwhelming lead against the legion on HIS home planet?!?! Of course Liadrin and the other are going take a back seat. Not to say that they shouldn’t have been used more but it made no sense for anyone besides Velen to take the lead.
Yeah, that is so vague that applies to virtually every villain that doesn’t get immediately defeated.
Edit: Additionally it states the below:
“Probably the rarest type of Sue, as Villains are generally given great powers and abilities to be a more credible threat to the protagonists and make their inevitable downfall more sweet. “
Which is why I pointed out that villains aren’t usually Mary Sue, or villain sues or whatever sue you want to call them because you don’t like the character.
I even said I have no problem with that in my quote, are you not reading what im writing? I have had ZERO issue with velen taking the leading role for his home planet. I EVEN SAID THAT IN WHAT YOU QUOTED ME IN.
My problem is that there was NO horde character involvement in argus. Thats what my problem is with. There was next to NONE what so ever.
But its also inexcsable that that horde had not even a minor role in argus. Our leading role in argus was liradin standing in the background basically saying ‘the horde is here’, yet the horde had no actual story. Besides ‘were here’.
The fact that you spend so much time trying to rebutt a point i dident even make and spend so little time on this issue speaks volumes about your bias.
All i said was there should of been more horde character involvement, and you twist that into trying to put words into my mouth about velen and his role. I never said he should have less of a role, I said there should of been more character involvement from others.
Go back and play through argus, it wasent merely a ‘back seat’, it was non existent. She literally just stood in the background the entire time doing nothing, saying nothing.
It is so unbelievably dull having the storyline trotted out as some high-fantasy soap opera between characters we have seen many, many, many times already.
I addressed your issue, you just clearly didn’t like what I had to say.
And in my answer in which you also quoted me
Of course they should have been used more or at all. But for the most part how that played out made sense. Everyone had an issue with the legion and quite often Liadrin has been there, Shattrath, WoD, and Quel Danas from what I remember. This time the focus was heavy on Argus and the Dreanei. It’s not as if Liadrin or haven’t had any involvement at all and yes they did have gotten something but at it stands the way Argus was handled made absolutely sense. Whether you liked it or not is entirely different issue.
I couldn’t agree more with you there. Specially on this expansion we see clear character favoritism in detriment of consistency.
On Alliance with Jaina and on Horde with Nathanos. Like seriously, Jaina has more screentime than Anduin, the actual faction leader, the same goes with Nathanos.
Difference is that on Jaina’s case, everything is set up to show how awesome and powerful she is, with Nathanos it’s just the narrative team wanting a boring, poorly developed character being arrogant and condescending to the player ALL THE TIME like an insecure teen who’s trying way too hard to look badass for his crush.
Like seriously. Our characters on Legion ALONE acomplished more than Nathanos did his entire life it’s enfuriating that we have to take orders from him just because he’s banging the boss.
If everything. I think WoW needs to actually start developing other characters more, like Baine, Lorthemar, Thalysra, Mayla, Greymane, Velen and that’s only the big ones, we have a lot of secondary characters who deserve more screentime.
I feel like a lot of it comes down to budgetary or financial reasons. I know that sounds crazy at first, but I think that the story team is allotted a certain number of characters per expansion that they can use and have voice actors for. That or it’s some guideline in a holy textbook Metzen left behind, that a character must be the buddy companion for the expansion. Khadgar hanging around for two expansion, Jaina and Nathanos here.
I also thinks it comes down to bad communication throughout the team. Either from team members having too much freedom or people not caring. An example would be Jaina being caught in Azshara’s trap, but also being part of the small group to free Baine. Each person on the team is making their story and using the same community action figures, so you end up with the same characters all over the world in different plots.
Of course you support this kind of alliance bias. I didn’t expect anything else from you Zerde. The neutral alliance characters for both sides need to stop. Let the faction talk to their own characters instead of being forced to work for the other side.