Marksmanship changes wishlist

Classes Hunter
1

Marksman is a fun spec, but rough around the edges. Some changes I’d like to see to make this spec more streamlined and prob OP.

Edit:
If all marksmanship brings to the table is damage then we are lacking in this department. We are nowhere near the level of power that the current meta kings I.E Rogues, DH, demo, etc bring. The utility we provide a group is very weak, no aoe stops/cc and our survivability and self-sustain is awful. Why take a MM hunter when you can have BM or for that matter any of the other meta dps.

Scrapped some changes that don’t add much overall. Adding new ones.

Aimed Shot - Cast time affected by haste.
Rapid Fire - Haste increases arrows fired.
Multi-Shot - baseline
Survival of the Fittess - Baseline 40% DR
Nature’s Endurance - 2 Charges of SotF
Hunter’s Avoidance - 6% DR instead of aoe DR.
Sentinel’s Protection - Increase Leech to 10%

Trick shots - baseline
Improved trick shots - reduces target requirement to 2 down from 3
Lone Wolf - baseline
Improved steady shot - baseline
Chimera shot - rework or scrap.
Bombardment - trick shots effects kill shot
Bursting Shot - change to a stun or disorient
Quickload - turn bursting Shot to aoe.
Explosive Trap - Option for a knockup instead of knockback
Legacy of the Windrunners - 12 Arrows to proc instead of 24 at 2 points.
Windrunner’s Guidance - 4 wind arrows down from 8 per stack.
Wailing arrow, Windrunners Barrage, Readiness - Terrible capstones. Cast time, power, and cool down are all in a poor spot, nearly worthless talents for a capstone.
Calling the shots - focus spent reduced to 35 down from 50 OR change Trueshot to a 1 minute CD. Buff Unnering Vision to get it’s full value without the 10 second ramp to compensate.
Lock and load - Generate a charge of aim shot, same effects. Increase the proc rate drastically. The current proc rate feels like 0.3-0.5 ppm.
Tier set - Increase proc rate to 5% per 10 focus spent.
Bloodlust/Hero - baseline, no pet needed.

4 Likes
2

Problem with lone wolf, is since dragonflight the devs put pet required utility in our class tree. Like a 5 second stun requiring a pet, sac,freedom, anti heal on pet.

The other problem with lone wolf being baseline is that it should only buff single target damage so that it matches pet.

1 Like
3

Rapid fire - Not looking like having a seizure

1 Like
4

1)Multishot and Trick shots baseline and work with 2 targets. Replace/move the talents with some of the below.
2)Bursting shot cone and range widened so the clunky misses are less. And bursting shot and explosive trap should knock the enemies a bit high from the ground so the knockback isnt canceled because of a little pebble on the ground or 2% incline.
3)Lonewolf baseline, replace the talent with improved lonewolf which gives pet passives and abilities of your choosing up to two, like mortal strike tied to aimed shot and movement speed buff.
4)Chimaera shot reworked: It doesnt replace arcane shot or do what it does now. Instead, It deals X frost/poison damage, deals full poison damage of a serpent sting and refreshes the duration if talented into it. Tie it to another talent which increases chimaera shot and serpent stings dmg by X%.
5)Add a talent for 2nd charges of disengage and turtle(half duration if need be).
6)Improved steady shot baseline.
7)Add a pvp talent which disarms the enemy for X seconds.

Balance the damage and talents accordingly.

5 Likes
5

you just wanna throw people off the map in BGs, that’s all you really want :slight_smile:

3 Likes
6

This!!! You nailed it

7

At this point I’d be happy to see legoin MM make a return.

4 Likes
8

100% agree

1 Like
9

I agree with a lot of them. MM has a lot of potential but unlike it’s cousin (BM) it diminishes with the amount of punishment it receives from the slightest mistake.

In my opinion, it is difficult to master and pump those big numbers, so having layers of RNG and a mess up rotation, seems wrong…

10

Please, oh please. :dracthyr_heart:

1 Like
11

Good lists overall @Fox, Vedo. Love almost all of the points in them.

My only concerns:

Huge improvement, but I feel like the latter bit still leaves too much jank. I’d rather just see Trick Shots, for instance, always be granted either by Multi-shot or any of your offensive skill that affects multiple enemies without itself consuming Trick Shots (Explosive Shot, Hi-Explosive Trap, Chimaera Shot, etc.), without needing any other talent. Ideally, other, softer / less arbitrary means should rein in MM’s 2-target damage in its place.

E.g....
  • Make Arcane Shot and Multi-shot hit quite a bit harder baseline but be 30 Focus, same as Cobra and Raptor, with the damage bonus from Precise Shots (reduced in compensation for the buff above for the same total damage) affecting only the targets actually struck and having them refund 10 Focus per hit for Arcane and 2 per additional enemy hit for Multi-shot to a maximum of 10 Focus refunded.
    • Such would allow us better to maintain damage when fully pressured in PvP while making the impact of Precise Shots also a bit more tangible and allowing for two-target damage not to get too out of hand. It also puts MM’s Focus spending more in line with BM and SV, for the purposes of Exhilaration and Sentinel Owl CDR.
  • Since one would want to spend their precise shots on Arcane in 2-target scenarios, and Multi-Shot would thereafter cost more to upkeep, that should still keep MM’s 2-target damage in check under most builds/tiers.

While this would allow pathing to the nodes beneath them more quickly, it would also mean either that (A) you can’t get much palpable impact out of those talents (not that Sharpshooter will ever have that) because you’ve reduced their maximum value to that of their first node or (B) those become obligatory because you’ve increased their power per point, overpowering them.

Tangent:

To my mind, this is more of a design issue with Dragonflight talent trees in general, whereby all multi-point nodes would probably be better served by allowing pathing from/past them their first points, with any further points being optional.

  • This would also allow for talents augmenting active skills to be placed in the same node as said skill, freeing up pathing considerably.

These seem excessive. Calling the Shots isn’t a whopping 43% behind its alternative across sets/builds, or even (iirc) under the existing meta build and tier set.

Similarly, though this is addressing ambiguity above all else, having LnL proc from ALL attacks would be problematic if done PER HIT, since that would make it —upon balance— worthless outside of AoE, and far more dependent on Rapid Fire in general). Per action, though, it wouldn’t be awful, but actually removes a (very tiny) optimization and doesn’t really favor Aimed Shot or Rapid Fire any differently from the old version; both the CPM of the new version and the cast/channel-delayed auto-shots of the old version disfavor Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire (for taking more than a single GCD or delaying auto-shots).

Aren’t we already largely swimming in RF resets?

I’m not against it, but I’m not sure whether, or why, this would be needed. I would think a more favorable Diminishing Returns interaction and DoTs just not breaking BurS (instead of needing a debuff purge) until a higher total damage may be preferable.

Feels like this may be better served through a slightly more comprehensive adjustment to what actions depend on one’s pet and how they can be selected, rather than something quite so strictly PvP-focused.

1 Like
12

It would be OP for sure if they were 1 point full benefit nodes, but freeing up an extra point or two offers some spec diversity which were lacking at the bottom of the tree since the current talents taken are almost mandatory.

A stun or a knock up, not back, is lacking in M+ keys where group stops become mandatory. Hunter doesn’t have a lot to offer the group. Since we can’t have intim stun a stun option for MM would be nice.

I don’t think it’s that off either, however, the sims do place Calling the Shots ahead. 35 might be too generous so maybe 40 or 45. Either way a slight bump to CDR would be good. As for LnL, I think you’re right my change would be unhealthy. If our final tier of talents had less 2 pt nodes, however, picking up the current LnL would be reasonable. As it is now, the other choices prevent it from being played.

13

Mm also needs a dash like ability, disengage is out dated and its impossible to get melee off you in pvp. Its so bad the meta is to go into pvp talent undispellable ice trap and just cc melee and kill the healer

14

It seems like you’d be better off just making Intimidation —or an MM-specific alternative— an actual option for MM, then (much like making Barrage —or an SV-specific alternative— an option for SV)?

Aye. Since the burst will often outweigh the overall contribution for allowing things to die before your tank does, you don’t need perfect parity in their overall, but 35 does seem like it’d make that choice damn near obligatory.

It’d be fine if you make it per action instead of per hit; it just wouldn’t really change anything.

Agreed.

Tangent, but I wish Concussive and Countershot were baselined and some of that central entry-tier space were instead used for mobility/utility options we’re basically forced to take at least one among.

15

I didnt think it was strictly pvp focused since you can choose the abilities, but to be fair, I didnt give it too deep of a thought and I’d like suggestions :slight_smile:

Also, unrelated to your reply, I wanted to add that pets have 3 things atm, for example, mortal strike + 8% movement speed passive + masters call. With my suggestion, you can have 2 of those 3, but not all.

16

Fair enough. I mis-assumed due to the emphasis on Mortal Wounds, something basically irrelevant in PvE.

Anywho, here’s the (arguably overcomplicated way) I’d try to baseline Lone Wolf.

  1. Move Hunter’s Lust/Hero/Warp to a Hunter skill, replacing the effect (and possibly the name) of Primal Rage.

    Call it Horn of the Hunt or what have you. Doesn’t matter. Just… baseline it, granting it around the same time as the other.

    Or… < donning pitchfork-resistant armor > drop Lust outright since we already have 3 other classes who can bring it now, saving that part of budget for more unique utilities… IF actually giving those new/improved unique utilities.

    Primal Rage can instead be, say, an X-minute CD giving the party 15% Leech and 45% Speed, fading linearly over 8 seconds.

  2. Bring back Beast Training, but slightly simplified.

    No, don’t just allow each pet to choose their specialization. Give each of your 5 pets 4 choices per row across a few rows (Special Attack, Special Action, Passive Benefit, Utility Action), with BM having access to additional choices in those rows and to a new row.

    Special attacks and Special Actions based on pet species/family, but with larger freedoms/overlaps due to the 3 choices. A cat, for instance, could take Rending Claws (Mortal), Tendon Rip (Snare), or Pounce (short root), and Prowl (stealth), Bristle (defensive), or Lick Wounds (self-heal with DoT-decay and -suppression). Each pet gets, for free, a single-target Focus-spender, and AoE Focus-spender (Beast Cleave slightly revised accordingly), and Growl.

    Allow the Hunter to set a “Learn from Nature” status on any of those 5 pets you can Call upon. If no pet is summoned, you will default to its actions, renamed to better suit use by the Hunter itself.

    For instance, Growl becomes Distracting Shot, Rending Claws would become Hemotoxin (an oGCD that causes your next attack to inflict Mortal Wounds), Tendon Rip becomes Neurotoxin (an oGCD that causes your next attack to inflict a snare), Pounce becomes Pin Boot, Prowl becomes Bushwalk (a far more limited version of stealth), Lick Wounds becomes Emergency Bandage, Bristle becomes Deterrence, Primal Rage becomes Blood Hunt, Master’s Call becomes Fetter-breaker, and Fortitude of the Bear becomes Survivor.

  3. Baseline Lone Wolf itself… without actually needing a Lone Wolf passive.

    Ideally, by simply tuning Hunter around a 10% AP penalty and attaching that 10% AP penalty to having a pet out. In that way, there’s no hidden passive; the exchange is right there on the tooltip of “Call Pet”.

    Slightly adjust the taming quest dialogue in Exile’s Reach to reflect that the chief benefit of having a pet isn’t in damage (unless specializing in the use of beasts) but rather in having a second unit, complete with its own position, HP pool, and threat tables.

    • Remember that pets now AoE baseline, rather than being limited to single-target unless specializing in Beast Mastery. This better allows them to be balanced simultaneously for multiple target counts.
      • (Outside of Beast Mastery, this pet AoE has reduced damage after 5 targets struck.)

  4. Slight pet functionality improvements to ensure pets are an option even for (minimal Mastery) MM.

    Remove pet Auto-attacks, siphoning that damage towards pet basic attacks, allowing them to go a longer period before losing damage to downtime.

    Change Dash into a simple Focus-draining toggle that can be auto-cast. It will be automatically used when out of reach of an enemy against whom an attack order has been manually given, when at max Focus and out of reach of an engaged enemy, and when given any manual Move order.

    • Such should better allow Hunters to leverage their pets for pulling ranged mobs around corners or aiming out cleaves via Growl, gathering mobs in the open world, etc.

    Dismiss Pet is now an oGCD. The pet gradually loses all its Attack Power and 30% its Speed over 3 seconds, after which time it disappears; you, in turn, regain your full Attack Power (increasingly lose the 10% penalty) over that time. You may also call a replacement pet directly, without unsummoning your current pet first, though there will be a 3-second delay before the pet is replaced if Call Pet is used while another is out.

    While de-summoned, pets’ Focus and HP continue to be tracked and progress, with any newly summoned pet retaining the previous one’s missing HP, buffs, and debuffs as they would have progressed by the time the pet (new or same) was (re-)summoned.

    • Dismiss can therefore be used in a pinch to keep your pet from completely dying, but gives enemies time, still, to nuke it down, and one can swap pets to respond to situations, but not so responsively as to essentially have one hyper-versatile pet that needs only stance/skin swaps. Call Pet still costs a GCD.
1 Like
17

I would like MM to get a standalone lust button just like heroism and never need to call a pet ever. Just my 200 dollars (inflation)

I don’t know pvp so I’m not talking about changes to that. From a purely pve perspective I want the full MM kit to be great without summoning a single pet ever. My MMs are snipers, a loud slobbering pet blowing my cover and getting in the way completely ruins the immersion.

1 Like