I say MM needs separation from SV and BM and you bring up rogues and warriors?! lol.
They took away a ton of abilities.
I really hate new MM. It’s a bit of an improvement in ST, because you can take talents that make aimed shot insanely quick, especially with kill shot procs, and during lust or PI, but outside of that you’re fishing for procs. It feels like lock’n’load should have a way higher chance of triggering, or we’re missing some ability to fill in the rotation. Having to consistently cast steady shot to recharge aimed shot is horrible.
AoE is the worst and most awful the entire spec has felt in years. Not only do you lose all the talents that make your single target viable, you also lose a lot of the talents that make aimed shot quicker and there’s no kill shot cleave at all. Trueshot is so damn slow, you fall asleep waiting for aimed shot to cast.
Yeah the damage is ‘fine’. But MM plays horribly in AoE right now. Incredible we get two “reworks” two patches in a row, and still end up mediocre.
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The rotation hasn’t really changed much.
There’s a lot more to a “spec” than the core rotation that everything else (such as the removed abilities) build around. The class got gutted.
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It really didn’t but feel free to give an example
The Legend got to 80, and without a hero class selected. If that doesn’t say how solid MM is in 11.1, who knows what else.
Over half the talents in Marksman affect Aimed Shot in some way.
The variance between a simple Aimed Shot without all the procs and seventeen different ways to modify it is a long cast that deals pathetic amount of damage versus a near instant cast that deals several millions in damage.
I don’t know how anyone can enjoy juggling with this nonsense when we could have stuff like OG Chimera shot, Black Arrow being decoupled from Kill Shot, explosive trap, immolation trap, a steady shot that actually does damage, an arcane shot that isn’t solely dependent on Precise Shot’s existence, a real lock and load rather than this auto shot monstrosity, etc.
Even Beastmaster has a more compelling ranged rotation than Marksman, and that’s not saying much.
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Oh man, I miss the OG Chimera Shot so much. I’ll never understand why Blizzard took it away in the Legion pre-patch.
Logged in with my huntard today, and my gosh Blizzard really butchered MM. Many talents and abilities gone. This feels like a massive nerf.
You forgot Alleria which seems more like a shadow priest archer mix. With her version of what looks like mind flay and then her shadow shots from her bow.
You are also forgetting Brann who is a BM hunter in the Delves but he can also heal so no idea wtf that is about shooting you with a bullet that heals…
Even without Sting interaction, the only thing distinguishing it from… OG Arcane Shot?
The Jackal hasn’t even turned on his hero class yet, and provided he gets the right gear, quod erat demonstratum if he can skate on by doing MOST of the content without being looked at hard for low DPS numbers.
I’ll enrich your perspective: you have active MMs(probably the only one) who are non-heroed and quite frankly, believe it’s even NECESSARY to avoid turning the talents on from launch and actually NOT BE BORED by how the class and spec trees are really well put together.
This would almost be like playing Legion without using the artifact weapon, except it’s not…
In times past, they put too much power into borrowed power systems. It’s actually refreshing to see we’re now PAST that part of history.
im convinced it’s either impossible to make BFA MM exciting, or blizz just has no class designers that actually like archers. the revamp is basically a tree of passives that make it play almost the same as before. most spec trees have multiple actual abilities or cds you can take and MM just has trueshot and volley. even BM has more in it’s tree now.
He doesn’t? He throws down healing potions you pick up and he uses an archaeology relic to pulse healing?
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It was the sting interaction that I liked.
But also, OG Chimera was important! While we still had it, Blizzard balanced MM around Aimed Shot and Chimera Shot.
Now? We’re balanced around just Aimed Shot. (Rapid Fire isn’t quite the same. Sometimes it hits hard but not always. It’s more important due to the buffs it gives us.)
It means we’re stuck on a wildly swinging pendulum. Everytime Blizzard thinks Aimed Shot is overperforming, especially in PvP, they nerf it… and MM DPS takes a nosedive.
I’m absolutely sick of Blizzard putting all of our eggs in the Aimed Shot basket. I’m sick of having basically just one really hard-hitting ability that our spec revolves around. It’s bad design, IMO.
Not to mention, it’s bad for PvP. OG Chimera was incredibly important and useful for PvP because it wasn’t physical damage. It ignored armor! So it hit warriors for the same that it hit mages.
Ever since we lost OG Chimera, we’ve been stuck with Aimed Shot for PvP. It’s a big part in why we lost Double Tap. Look at all the complaining from the cloth classes for getting “deleted” by us. Blizzard couldn’t balance Aimed Shot in PvP — still can’t! Aimed Shot is physical, which means if Blizzard balances it against cloth classes, we won’t be scratching the plate users. If Blizzard balances it against plate… yeah, the clothies are getting deleted.
I’ve brought up these arguments before, in the Legion and BFA days. I got told I was being overly dramatic, that I wanted to “ruin” MM’s damage profile by having two equal hard-hitting abilities instead of just one. 
I foresaw the problem with MM being wholly dependent on Aimed Shot years ago. Many people disagreed with me heavily then, and I’m positive that I’ll get flamed endlessly once I post this. But I won’t change my mind. MM needs two hard-hitting abilities that are nearly equal to each other, specifically so MM won’t be crippled when Blizzard nerfs one of the two shots, and MM needs a hard-hitting magical shot for PvP that ignores armor.
I think it’s common sense.
EDIT: Rapid Fire is physical. It won’t solve the PvP problem if we try to elevate Rapid Fire to the same function that OG Chimera had. And Rapid Fire has a 20-second CD vs OG Chimera’s 10 (or 9 with the glyph). Aimed Shot itself has a 10 second charge timer that could be reduced with Steady Shot if you talent into it.
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Ahh, fair enough then. Same. Granted, not sure how to bring back that choicefulness without the total of 4 buttons to actually, well, allow for those choices.
I mean, it’s the same for Mortal Strike, Ferocious Bite, Rampage, Secret Techniques/Execute/Dispatch, etc. We have our fillers and our nukes. I’m not really sure that’s inherently a bad thing. Tuning swings just as wildly when it’s something far less central or even only situationally significant portion of our damage (see a CD’s target cap changing, Bladestorm nerfs, etc.). Which, honestly, is probably just a good reason to see more use of aura buffs/nerf rather than trying to gut certain abilities when internal balance is already fine (and, equally, not to gigabuff certain abilities with our filler Hero talents).
If anything, I’d just say its the inability to get at all mechanically free of it that annoys me, as with Rampage and Meat Cleaver on Fury or Butchery on Survival now (feeling like a singular CD in place of, well, gameplay).
I’m… not(?) oddly enough? Hmm. I truly do think that Aimed Shot is our most iconic ability, and I’m happy to keep it central. More importantly…
This seems a non-issue. Every physical class deals with this, but if we wanted to make a physical ranged function instead like a magical one, we need only offer MM Armor Penetration (and not necessarily just for Aimed Shot, though it’d make plenty of sense for it to be especially penetrating). Rogue has already seen the same, after all, and even Warrior from time to time before it was buffed against NPCs by being turned into flat damage buffs.
Isn’t that baseline as of 11.1?
He is hurling potion bottles at you like a wildfire bomb.
He has a healing shot like from the Star wars mmo where the Merc shoots you and you get a heal from it. He has healed me that way a few times the Shot is green colored.
He does that and he uses a relic but he also shoots you with a green colored shot that heals. at least thats what it looks like to me and that is on top of the potions and the relic.
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I like it so far and do not miss any of the spells but barrage for old content farming. I also love lusting without a pet and having better survivability without a pet now. However, it’s too RNG. I’d rather rapid fire never be reset and have a 10 second cooldown, and lock and load proc every time you cast explosive shot rather than off of autos.