Many are missing the point of using sharding

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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First, the obvious. But this needs to be addressed.

Cross-Realm Zones: you see people from OTHER realms in your world. (will not be in Classic)

Phasing: some modern quests are able to change the world. If your friend didn't complete the quest, the world is different for him and you cannot see him in the quest area, even when in a group. (will not be in Classic)

Sharding: there are multiple "instances" of the zone, where only players of your own realm are. You cannot see everyone, and if you join a group from a different instance, you fade away from your current instance. (this is being considered as an option for the Classic launch)

If you don't understand why Blizzard is considering sharding, you won't be able to convince them to use something else. I see arguments such as these:

Sharding is used to appease retail players, which cannot stand being stuck a little.


Blizzard wants sharding to reduce the load, but if they could launch in 2004 and the game survived, why not now with better computers? They will use it in the AQ event, I am telling you.


Those are NOT the reasons. Take your time, read, and give this some thought.

This is a famous graph of the number of subscriptions up to WoD, when they stopped sharing it: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/1241945255815773287.png

Since Cataclysm, the number of players jumps up at the start of an expansion, and then goes down. In WoD/Legion/BfA it was even uglier according to unnoficial reports. BfA subs are already down half. The modern game "survives" because there are all those cross-realm technologies and people don't care too much about the open world anymore.

Now consider the launch of Classic WoW. It only demands a WoW subscription, so it will be cheap to just go in and get a nostalgia shot, and also every current BfA player is able to take a quick look, reach maybe level 8-10 and be done with it. In 2004 the game was the hot new thing... someone buying it to just "check it out" was an outlier.

There is a very high chance 80% of the population will be gone in the first month.

Now how can you deal with this? The current known options:

1) Create many 3K population realms and then merge servers when the populations dwindle. This can be very problematic, because players will lose their character names, and possibly guild names; guild progressions will be mixed; also economics. And this may happen more than once for a player.

2) Create fewer very high population realms (10K+). After "tourists" leave, there will still be a healthy population. Launch, however, would be a mess. Dynamic spawn rates would need to be implemented, and those can be exploited with a huge population. Also we don't know how bad the performance would be with the Legion code.

3) Create fewer very high population realms and use sharding in the starting zones for a few weeks. Sharding fixes the launch problem in the case of huge populations, but creates the multiple instance / players disappearing problem.

Considering the available options, 3) is the least bad for me. There is something that worries me about 2) and 3), however. What if the realm population doesn't decrease? Would we end up with a realm with tons of players and lose that sense of community, of "knowing everyone"?

If you absolutely think sharding cannot be implemented, address the problem correctly. Also try to think of new ideas, guys. "Just repeat 2004" can be very bad for the game.
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Where are you getting this "80% will leave in the first month" from ?
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11/06/2018 06:22 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Where are you getting this "80% will leave in the first month" from ?


I didn't say will, I said there is a very high chance. Sum up the gaming trends in general, the WoW expansion cycles, the "free" to BfA players aspect, the date of the original game, etc. etc...

Also read to the end, where I express a concern about options 2) and 3).
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11/06/2018 06:26 AMPosted by Granpiru
11/06/2018 06:22 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Where are you getting this "80% will leave in the first month" from ?


I didn't say will, I said there is a very high chance. Sum up the gaming trends in general, the WoW expansion cycles, the "free" to BfA players aspect, the date of the original game, etc. etc...

Also read to the end, where I express a concern about options 2) and 3).


it's all based on the assumption that the majority of players will leave before level 5 and you're left with a 2K realm pop that doesn't need sharding.

If that doesn't happen and the majority of players move to the next zone (5-10) then what ?

There are a lot of people out there that want to play vanilla.
Take Northdale for example...12K peak in June. This is November...9K peak.
The majority did NOT leave. No assumption at all..hard numbers here.

Yet you think wow classic will be different ?
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Having played a pserver launch that had 10k, I can tell you that sharding starting zones won't be enough. It wasn't until around lv35 that overcrowding started to ease up.

If they stick with vanilla server caps sharding won't be needed, as the crowding in starting to es only lasts a few hours.

Dead servers are inevitable either way. Don't know what makes people think millions of players are returning and everyone will quit retail. I think sayng that 80% will quit by level 8 is very realistic.
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How it was addressed at Blizzcon is that once players get out of the starting zones, they will have much more options to spread out throughout Azeroth, which should lead to less people per zone regardless of overall population.

For example, Night Elves. Maybe 40% will go directly into Darkshore, but at least 40% could head off to Eastern Kingdoms. Dwarves. Some could head off to Elewyn Forest at the earliest opportunity. Barrens are going to be a cluster. That Horde bias might come back to bite them in the rear. Therefore, I really do believe realm populations could be restricted to under 3k a realm for this sole reason.

I think the point is to get people into game as quick as possible so they can make a determination if Classic is for them. I think that at a certain point, the old que counter will return. Just speculation though.
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First the obvious. We have too many of these threads and they even made a mega thread for this topic.
So many are missing the point of using a mega thread to talk about this debacle.
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11/06/2018 06:55 AMPosted by Stiffhorn
First the obvious. We have too many of these threads and they even made a mega thread for this topic.
So many are missing the point of using a mega thread to talk about this debacle.

Shills cant shill effectively in the megathread
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Not sure this is possible but I think a month or 2 before launch they should allow the DL of the client and allow people to at least create their char then take that info to determine if sharding will or will not be needed or any form of altercation will be needed or not.
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Sharding can be abused for leveling speed and resource gathering.

It can be used to kill a rare multiple times to get gear and DE mats faster.

Sharding will absolutely affect PvP. Allowing people to be invited to a group and spawning in "reinforcements" into your shard.

I get the benefits... but I think many people would rather wait in queue, or fight for mobs the first couple weeks than see the initial economy screwed up due to abuse, or miss out on some really great PVP in Hillsbrad/Stranglethorn due to it being affected by sharding.
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11/06/2018 07:01 AMPosted by Droodguy
11/06/2018 06:55 AMPosted by Stiffhorn
First the obvious. We have too many of these threads and they even made a mega thread for this topic.
So many are missing the point of using a mega thread to talk about this debacle.

Shills cant shill effectively in the megathread


I hope you nerd rage and stomp off to some p server so that the rest of us don't have to play with children with your mindset.
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11/06/2018 06:22 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Where are you getting this "80% will leave in the first month" from ?
This is a strong possibility. For that matter, I'd believe it if they said 80% of retail accounts unsub after the first 30-60 days.
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11/06/2018 07:01 AMPosted by Droodguy
11/06/2018 06:55 AMPosted by Stiffhorn
First the obvious. We have too many of these threads and they even made a mega thread for this topic.
So many are missing the point of using a mega thread to talk about this debacle.

Shills cant shill effectively in the megathread


Tinfoil hats are the best.

Things are different when you are really worried about the game succeeding, but at the same time are able to look at things objectively.
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11/06/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Tristany
Sharding can be abused for leveling speed and resource gathering.

As far as speed levelers I say whatever is your cup of tea doesn't effect much. Resource gather yes this could happen but only because they abuse the grouping feature. Wil get to that farther down the post.
It can be used to kill a rare multiple times to get gear and DE mats faster.

Rares don't have a guarantee drop do again you could if you want to span in and out of groups but again you could kill a rare a 100 of times and only get 1 item worth ya wild
Sharding will absolutely affect PvP. Allowing people to be invited to a group and spawning in "reinforcements" into your shard.

Without sharding reinforcements are still there actually more so because you wont get the bad luck of being in a shard with no one from your fraction around you. The abuse in retail was actually the opposite people would join a group to get sharded out whenever things got out of hand and they were on a losing side they join a group, get moved into their shard then drop group. Blizzard counter that by breaking some addon feature and removing the auto add feature from there side. I know someone countered that with another addon however this is where blizzard to restrict certain addon or what they can do to prevent that.

I get the benefits... but I think many people would rather wait in queue, or fight for mobs the first couple weeks than see the initial economy screwed up due to abuse, or miss out on some really great PVP in Hillsbrad/Stranglethorn due to it being affected by sharding.


The biggest issue with sharding is the imbalance it causes specially when large groups are formed. When a raid group goes into a shard lets say to kill a world boss it registers that raid group in the shard however it doesn't balance it self out meaning if a shard caps at 60 people and 40 are a horde raid group already it doesn't determine well no more horde should be sharding in meaning that particular shard could house a full 60/0 horde/alliance or 50/10 you get the point. However all these issues and word pvp issues are mute if its only used in the starting zone as there wont be sharding in contested zones .
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11/06/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Tristany
Sharding can be abused for leveling speed and resource gathering.

It can be used to kill a rare multiple times to get gear and DE mats faster.

Sharding will absolutely affect PvP. Allowing people to be invited to a group and spawning in "reinforcements" into your shard.

I get the benefits... but I think many people would rather wait in queue, or fight for mobs the first couple weeks than see the initial economy screwed up due to abuse, or miss out on some really great PVP in Hillsbrad/Stranglethorn due to it being affected by sharding.


Yes, you are right about that. But those things will only happen if Blizzard don't keep their promise of sharding only starting areas and for a few weeks. One thing they absolutely must do is telling us exactly which areas. It is a long journey to Barrens/Westfall, thus sharding Durotar/Elwynn probably will be enough to deal with "tourists".

I particularly don't understand how it's different they promising sharding only in starting areas and then break their promise and keep using it in the game, from promising no sharding at all and then using it anyway. One way or another the players will know. One way or another we will have to trust them.
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https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769589002

I just don't feel like typing so here and

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769769336

here

Sharding won't save dead servers. and making multiple servers is "problematic"? Yes adjustments will be harsh after server merges but it's doubtful it will ruin everything in the long term
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wrong no sharding we dont want it
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11/06/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Greenemprah
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769589002

I just don't feel like typing so here and

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769769336

here

Sharding won't save dead servers. and making multiple servers is "problematic"? Yes adjustments will be harsh after server merges but it's doubtful it will ruin everything in the long term


Sharding indeed won't save servers if you start with a normal 3K population. There is no point in using sharding if a normal population limit is used.

And if you think multiple mergers are a better option... well, there is really no argument against that. But IMO a lot of mergers is much worse than sharding in Durotar for 3 weeks.
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Anyone who is merely putting their hands over their ears and shrieking "LA LA LA LA LA" into the wind, over sharding of starting zones, like they won't be the first people on the forums b!tching at Blizzard when Classic launches (with no sharing) and crying that "it is unplayable", "why didn't you learn", is really kind of petulant.

I wonder how many of you have played on a Private Server in the last 14 years, with zero modification (no dynamic respawn rate), that you are convinced you remember how chaotic launch could be.
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11/06/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Tristany
Sharding can be abused for leveling speed and resource gathering.

It can be used to kill a rare multiple times to get gear and DE mats faster.

Sharding will absolutely affect PvP. Allowing people to be invited to a group and spawning in "reinforcements" into your shard.

I get the benefits... but I think many people would rather wait in queue, or fight for mobs the first couple weeks than see the initial economy screwed up due to abuse, or miss out on some really great PVP in Hillsbrad/Stranglethorn due to it being affected by sharding.
I actually never considered this angle. Granted it's supposedly only low level zones. But it reeks of hand holdy BS more if you look at it from this "everyone gets a chance at nodes, everyone gets a chance to skin that boar"

It's going to flood markets early on and may leave them flooded long after the sharding is supposedly gone.

11/06/2018 07:55 AMPosted by Gloryholadin
Anyone who is merely putting their hands over their ears and shrieking "LA LA LA LA LA" into the wind, over sharding of starting zones, like they won't be the first people on the forums b!tching at Blizzard when Classic launches (with no sharing) and crying that "it is unplayable", "why didn't you learn", is really kind of petulant.

I wonder how many of you have played on a Private Server in the last 14 years, with zero modification (no dynamic respawn rate), that you are convinced you remember how chaotic launch could be.
Nost, as much as I don't like dragging them out. Didn't have it at start and I remember ending up forming up with people that eventually founded our guild and raided durotar proper with like 15 people to kill !@#$ for EXP.

It's going to be hectic but that's also part of the fun, no rose goggles needed