Dear Blizzard, I am not sure if this is the “proper channel” to provide my feedback. But I have been playing rogue since classic WoW, and I think I speak for many other rogues out there when I say this Dragonflight version of sub rogue has been a big miss especially due to the reliance on Secret Technique. After playing Shadowlands, Dragon-flight sub rogue is just not as fun. It has a lot of theoretically cool and fun builds with all of the tree customization but none of them are actually viable in PvP except one. Even though it is a strong build, the reliance on hitting the enemy with one ability makes the class play extremely repetitive, predictable and boring. I would argue that Shadowlands had more viable pvp builds for sub rogue with various covenants giving them strengths in different aspects. You have reworked Ret paladin, and some other classes making them more exciting to play. Please take a look at sub rogue for this next patch as well.
What one build are you referring to. I have a build I really enjoy and it doesn’t use Secrete Techniques. I’ve been having blast running regular BG’s
I loved sub in vanilla and BC for pvp. Got more into PvE over the years though.
Played combat through the outlaw changes until DF, when I switched back to Sub. I really like the playstyle in PvE.
We are talking about it for months here and trying to get organized.
Thing is, Find weakness being so low is where a lot of the problems lie and backstab being weak.
Evisc can’t get buffed because of the right side and backstab can’t get buffed hard because of the left side.
- Instead they nerf us for no reason other than secret technique monkey nonsense that none of us actually enjoy just like in bfa with the -20% energy agility and left assassination alone the entire expansion. Same w the mudslide that is SL.
Proposed changes : Sanguinary vein being applied by hemorrhage was the best and now symbol’s replaced it.
- put SV on backstab move the 10% to backstab applying it and allow symbols to just generate energy.
- i liked it when garrote / rupture/ hemo applied it. They did that and we would be in a better spot across the board.
Really gotta stop emphasizing”all in“ dance as that is what gets us to this point every expansion since the legion rework.
I also play builds I enjoy because the nonsense others do will get nerfed every time due to influencers effing our class up with their yt vids “tHiS iS bUsTeD” “tHIs iS iNsANe” . They don’t care about the class, they care about “1shotting” and looking like Johnny cool while they collect cash from subscribers on twitch.
I agree. I normally enjoy Sub the most, but the playstyle is clunky and feels awful. All of your damage is basically in Shadow Dance, your damage outside of that isn’t just lower its laughable. Dance Macabre feels insanely awkward, it reminds me of Hit Combo or whatever it was called for Windwalker monks.
You don’t run Vigor in PvP since you reasonably can’t, so that feels pretty bad too. On top of all your damage being focused into Shadow Dance, it’s further focused into Secret Technique. Boring.
On top of all the annoying micro buffs and things you have to manage like SnD without any reliable refresh, Rupture, Symbols of Death. God it feels horrible to play even when you win. Assass is nerfed now but at least feels fluid to play and is intuitive. Sub doesn’t feel intuitive at all in PvP to me
It’s not Subtlety anymore, it’s the kids who whined about sanguinary vein application and wanted everything in dance style.
Legion literally had us with % to regenerate a whole dance based on finishers.
Nothing about Subtlety since legion has lead us down a good road. Find weakness was exciting, we ignored 70% of someones armor and you felt very strong and had to capitalize on that moment of killer instinct.
You felt like you were gonna snuff someone’s candle out.
Now we are like yessss suck my dance nerd! And they are like cool! Bash! or Fear and ALL of your damage is gone.
I’m going to rewrite a talent tree inspired by the past and using some stuff from current iterations in hopes of it gaining traction for them to see. I hope others dig it and push for it too because we need to go back to what worked and I heavily believe that can easily be accomplished without “ruining” whoever likes what we are now while addressing Subtlety problems.
Only thing we are good at now is being consistently inconsistent “hur hur waiting for cds” meanwhile other classes just rip into everything pve’ing everyone down.
Any viable build for rated pvp includes secret tech rn
Why have FW at all if its so underwhelming at a whopping 30% armor, I’d literally rather not have it. It’s not like I’m ever thinking about FW uptime when I do damage, its just there. So why have it?
Same thing with SND, I press shadowstrike have SND and barely notice it. More shadow tech proc ig poggers.
The spec is just very very flawed, the rogue dev should honestly be a shamed of themselves for how horridly they did us this time around. Look at your tree, so many of our baseline spells just sitting there taking up spots because they lack the creativity to make anything new.
completely agreed, they should have gone with a button that just causes on demand FW instead of weakening it and emphasizing everything in dance.
- It’s because of dance being frequent and now extending it to backstab crits / shuriken crits so they say → Frequent must mean tune it down. It’s like the difference of 2k on crits and that absolutely sucks dude.
SnD is fine but yeah it sucks but without SnD all 3 rogue energy regen absolutely sucks butt.
- Recuperate should have come back and just granted 1% hp + improved energy regen ( I think it was called energetic stabbing in cataclysm - I don’t remember man).
Would much rather stab tf out of people hearing those armor sounds sheenk sheenk!! sheenk! knowing i’m hurting someone rather than
“hur hurr sEcRet TeChnIquE gG”
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They can at least make more talents to enhance FW and make backstab worth an eff instead of focusing on symbols.
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I’d even talent into another talent that makes FW stack up on targets
EX: perforated veins (2/2) increases backstab damage by 20/40% and your backstab or gloomblade critical strikes apply Find Weakness as a stacking effect. You must maintain FW stacks as a trade off for a stronger effect. (25 → 50%) .
Weapon Master / Improved backstab should just improve backstab + shadowstrike damage by 15% in conjunction with that 15% crit.
Make Sin Rogue as good as Sub in PVE.
I see. I don’t do rated content. I did try Secret Technique though. I didn’t get much out of it. Maybe my timing was always off or something.
Is it really that strong?