Season 1 KSM was a challenge out of the gate. Players were still gearing from being fresh 60s, learning mechanics, and learning their class/spec. Since the start of Shadowlands there have been countless nerfs to the dungeons, timers extended, and tanks buffed making the dungeons unrecognizably easier.
With all the nerfs, getting KSM at the end of the season was no where near the difficulty of the start. Yet, now players can take advantage of all the nerfs and don’t even how to time a single key to get KSM. Someone can legitimately fail-to-time every key on a +16/17 and still get the title Keystone Master. How can anyone call themselves a master by only failing?
KSM in Season 3 should be a challenge. Bring back the requirement to time each dungeon on both Tyrannical and Fortified at +15. Maybe even a separate achievement added of personally not dying in each of them at +15. An achievement that shows someone has timed every dungeon at +15 without dying will mean so much more for their level of competence and skill than what is currently available. Season 2 KSM holds no weight.
22 Likes
Season one was a challenge because y’all started from M0
Season two you guys were already doing +20 M+ last season
You want next season +15 to be harder than +20 this season ?
19 Likes
I was doing some +20s by the end of last season, but It was a complete joke in Season 2. The fact that it was so easy to get KSM the 2nd week of the season without any Season 2 gear is a joke. The ilvl gap between the two seasons are 226 vs 252. Thats 30 ilvls worth of gear and we didn’t need any of it to get KSM this season. It was that nerfed.
Nope. People would drop keys even more than they already do if that was part of the requirement.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/800596040830418967/881737994627846194/unknown.png
12 Likes
Yeah, call me a nerd because I want achievements to be actual achievements. Not just a handout.
6 Likes
actually season 1 was more challenging. Alot of dungeons were nerfed. Tanks got buff alot. I say timing a 15 this season was about +13/+14 on season 1.
But saying that tbh I dont care about ksm. Players like me will pretty much get it week 2 or 3 (depending if I get the right key). Maybe have it so you need to time atleast every dungeon 1 time. It can be during tyr or fort week. But if they dont change it it’s also fine by me.
3 Likes
The masses who play WoW will never agree to more of a challenge, we’re talking about the same masses who want LFR’s, heroic dungeons, and pet battles nerfed.
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With all the nerfs and buffs +15s this season felt more like a +12 in S1. I was doing +15s from day 1 of S2 without any gear and it felt like I didn’t miss a beat. That’s with 26 ilvls to continue growing.
I find that unfortunate. They can always make things easier, but it’s more difficult to raise the bar.
2 Likes
Not really , experience counts as well.
Doing the dungeon the first time in season 1 vs doing the 100 th time in seaon 2 is pretty much toned it to be muscle memory . One different afix is not going to mix it up much .
I see the only way of raising difficulty to counter play experience is increasing the number of affixs every season and then resetting it back to 5 for the next expansion with new dungeons.
So instead of 5 affixes first season you will have 6 this season and 7 the next.
3 Likes
Hey you actually got it right that time!!!
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Agree and disagree.
I agree that being a challenge is really interesting and encourages us to go for it. But I disagree because I would like to go after other achievements and other game modes, such as PvP and Raid. Focusing on different things without feeling like I’m missing out every day I don’t do a Dungeon
4 Likes
I was rounding it before, but continue with w.e you are trying to accomplish.
Experience obviously matters. My point was that it shouldn’t have been so easily doable with the gear transferred over from S1. People are getting hard stuck right now trying to get past +19 or +20 due to dps requirements. Dungeons were nerfed so hard the bar was in the ground to time. People should have been hard stuck due to dps trying to time +15s out of the gate.
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No. The new system is fine, simply failing/depleting your way thru 16s/17s is a nice QOL bonus for those of us that mostly group with pug players (…such as myself).
Not all of us have regular/consistent friends that play during the same times we do… so pugging it is 
Only thing that needs changing is making both the “progress” and the valor upgrades account-wide again (for the benefit of alts).
8 Likes
I agree that season 1 KSM was challenging out of the gate and that season 2 KSM was absolutely trivial in comparison literally doable the 8th day of the season. I also agree we need more satisfying achievements.
That said “Don’t die” as a requirement for KSM seems… meh. I just want the keys to be harder next season.
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You are talking to someone who basically only pugs, and hundreds of them per season.
Yeah, I don’t either.
Maybe that could be its own achievement with a separate tracker.
That’s probably why Keystone Hero is a thing?
lmao.
5 Likes
Instead:
Have NO Achv
NO Mount
NO pet
NO reward.
If you want to do M+, then by all means… do it. This is a GAME, it’s supposed to be FUN. And if you’re having fun, then have at it! By all means, go get 'em!
S1 should be the ONLY season that offers a reward, for all of the reasons listed. After that, just play it for fun.
You know why some of you are balking at this idea? Because M+ isn’t fun. For 90%+, it’s a means to an end. There is a small group of people that actually like it, push higher keys etc… but it’s a VERY small group. For everyone else, they’re failing their required +15 for loot and calling it good.
Why are we structuring the game around THAT??
6 Likes
To be fair, you have to finish it close to the timer to get ANY points. If you’re CLOSE to the timer in a 17 you would have timed it as a 15.
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Or they leave it where it’s at and throw in another Mythic Tier recolor/achievement for an all around +20 completion.
3 Likes