Can we please get some hotfixes in for Imonar’s Sleep Canister and Aggramar’s Flame Rend? Right now Imonar’s Sleep Canister can put you to sleep for more than the amount of time it takes for him to cast it again, pretty much putting you into an infinite loop of sleep. Aggramar’s Flame Rend knocks a player off the platform with seemingly no methods for avoiding this ability. Some hotfixes to these for soloing would be nice.
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I agree. As it currently stands the two are unsoloable.
Eonar on Mythic also needs the treatment, while Coven needs to be looked at as well.
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Blizz hadn’t made a point of soloability changes to a raid until two xpacs later.
If Blizzard has changed anything, it’s that they’re less interested in working on old content, not more, so I wouldn’t even hold my breath about that.
Normally, I’d wait for that two xpac change, but in this instance they released the legacy loot mode early which, strikes the question about possible early nerfs to some mechanics as well to make the content somewhat more doable to take advantage of the legacy loot.
The announcement, however, specifically states that not all bosses will be soloable, and people may need to bring friends.
Maybe we should just be grateful for getting legacy loot early, instead of using that generosity as an attempted justification to demand more.
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Why would we be grateful for legacy loot if they’re too lazy to make the changes necessary to farm them?
I’m grateful that you were willing to fix tires, but you gave them back to me without rims.
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Because it wasn’t supposed to be legacy loot until Shadowlands. We got legacy months early and all you can do is complain about it.
Your analogy is completely wrong. It’s more like someone bought you a car and you’re complaining that they didn’t fill the gas tank. A simple thank you would have been fine.
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I see no harm in politely requesting these changes.
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That’s exactly what should happen. Players politely suggest features and tweaks they’d like to see, and maybe the devs assign resources to it. Or maybe not, because it’s their schedule, not ours.
But there’s a fair bit of “not politely” in threads like this. For instance, if the devs don’t instantaneously hop to a random player’s demands, it’s not laziness. It’s competing priorities.
The devs don’t work for us. They work for their managers, and ultimately for the shareholders.
And the customer is not always right.
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There was nothing wrong with your polite request. My objection was to the implication that, rather than a request, this was something that “needed” to be done, and even moreso, to the charge that the developers were “lazy” because they only gave us one thing extra early.
Those aren’t requests and they aren’t polite. Those people should try to grow up and stop ruining nice gestures with ingratitude.
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It makes sense to suggest that Legacy mode and changes to soloability should both be done. It’s somewhat nice that they’re starting to review rolling back on bad/arbitrary policies around this time, but there’s definitely no reason to view this in any other context - it’s not exactly pat-on-the-back worthy.
TBH the changes to make X mechanics soloable should probably be done with the new expansion drop, even if legacy loot is not enabled, and regardless of legacy loot policy. But that would involve, like, foresight and stuff.
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IMO, mechanical nerfs should only be put in place if there’s no realistic way to beat a boss through only numerical brute-forcing. An encounter such as Mythic Hellfire Assault is a good example of this, as it was nigh-impossible without a super high-mobility class pre-nerf. Neither Imonar nor Aggramar fit this bill, IMO. You can skip the canister on Imonar with enough numbers to force an early transition, ditto for Aggramar with Flame Rend, who I’m currently able to solo on LFR/Normal/Heroic (The DPS check on the latter was pretty tight)
It’s more than “somewhat nice” and policies aren’t arbitrary. Over a decade ago they said they had no intention of making mechanical changes to old content. It was considered a waste of resources to work on old content instead of new. The content was designed for a group, and if people could solo it, great, and if they couldn’t, too bad.
The fact that they started making changes to accommodate the players who wanted them is great, but it doesn’t mean the players now get to dictate when and where those changes happen. Especially when the policy since the beginning of legacy loot has been 2 expansions, and they once again do us a favor, and bring it in early. It was announced that legacy loot was here, but that bosses were going to stay as they were.
I’m sorry that’s apparently not good enough for some people, but I, for one am grateful for the legacy loot change and don’t feel the need to bite the hand that feeds us.
With all due respect I would much appreciate that this thread not devolve into a toxic one. Thank you.
It’s more than “somewhat nice” and policies aren’t arbitrary.
Sure, they’re arbitrary. That’s one of the reasons they can be easily flipped around even with the same type of logic. The call to say that irrelevancy is reached at “the second expansion before current” is equally as arbitrary as “the previous expansion, once the current expansion is basically over” (the logic now), and would be just so if it was “the previous expansion”.
We can appreciate their rolling it back, but we certainly don’t need to give them TOO much credit for rolling back a policy that benefits them at the expense of players, especially for things that should be as simple as tweaking one variable or setting. There’s certainly no real subset of players who “enjoys” the challenge of coming up to unplayable/uncounterable mechanics.
IMO, mechanical nerfs should only be put in place if there’s no realistic way to beat a boss through only numerical brute-forcing.
I think this is fairly valid logic - with the caveat that the window should probably be about 20-30 seconds or so at minimum. That at least gives players a chance to play through it, as opposed to “wait 5 expansions to oneshot it”.
What’s the timeframe on Sleep Canister and Flame Rend?
It may seem arbitrary to you as a a player, but the decision to make legacy two expansions wasn’t arbitrary from a developer perspective. They didn’t throw darts at a board and choose 2 because that’s where the dart went. It was a decision based on how people were playing the game, and what the developers considered the best way to accommodate both the people seeking old rewards and the people who wanted to experience old content with a little more effort than a few GCDs from a legacy buff.
What benefit do you perceive for the developers one way or the other with regards to legacy loot?
The point isn’t people liking unsoloable mechanics, it’s that activating legacy loot is relatively simple, and can improve the experience for players doing old content with very little investment of resources. Changing the coding on boss fights requires much more effort, and it clearly wasn’t part of their schedule for this particular change, because it was announced with the addition of legacy loot that some bosses wouldn’t be soloable.
This also preserves the initial intent behind the 2 expansion rule, which is to allow people who want to experience a more authentic version of the Legion raids, in that they still require a group of some sort.
2 expansions; no need for hyperbole. And players have a chance to play through it by bringing more players.
If this is directed at me, I will always remain as civil as the people I’m in the discussion with.
I have a low tolerance, however, for bad behavior and entitled attitudes, and I don’t waste a lot of time or effort being courteous to those people.
You’re the only one on your side of this in the thread who is having a discussion though. The others are just ranting.
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Time frame on sleep canister is like 20ish seconds, which he resets like every 10ish seconds. Flame rend activates when his energy bar is full and it will send you flying off the platform, you can avoid it with higher dps and phase transitioning.
Of course it was. Irrelevant is a sliding scale. Legion is old content now, and was old content 2 patches ago, and was old content as soon as players could hit 120, and will be old content several months from now. It’s completely arbitrary which one you pick for legacy loot or fixing unsoloable mechanics.
the people who wanted to experience old content with a little more effort than a few GCDs from a legacy buff
I don’t think anyone has brought up legacy damage buffs. Legacy loot drops and unsoloable mechanics are both completely different, and not necessarily relevant to the damage buff. I’m certainly not making any suggestion that the cutoff point for the Legacy damage buff needs to or should be changed.
What benefit do you perceive for the developers one way or the other with regards to legacy loot?
There will certainly be many more players interested in hunting for Legion xmogs with legacy loot. That interest will certainly wane if those sets cannot be completed because a mechanic cannot be countered by the player. Collectors tend to only stay invested as long as collections are possible, and the more that are, the more likely they will stay on now (as opposed to coming back next expac).
I’d have to imagine that is the essential logic that drove them to advance to Legacy loot now - they have a wide window of stale content, and want to retain people’s interest as much as they can through it. If they didn’t think this would help, we certainly wouldn’t be seeing Legacy loot now ANYWAY.
Changing the coding on boss fights requires much more effort
No, it’s not; unless they code so badly that they’re creating extra work for themselves. Feature flags are a thing, and can be built in before code goes out. A ticket to change a variable or a number should make a dev happy, since it’s much easier than trying to reproduce an intermittent bug that requires conditions across 2-3 different areas to align correctly.
2 expansions; no need for hyperbole. And players have a chance to play through it by bringing more players.
At 2 expansions, it’s unlikely players will actually get enough from the Legacy damage buff to outdps something that happens 2-5 seconds into an encounter, or on pull. Hence my suggestion that a 20-30 second window is reasonable; even if players don’t quite scale THAT much for whatever reason in a given expansion window to make the 20-30 second window easy, I think it’d be reasonable to leave as-is since it gives time for a player to POP EVERY COOLDOWN and give it their best shot.
It’s been a while since I went to HFC, but Archimonde solo now would take, what, 20 seconds? 30?
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My best Archi Mythic solo (452 MM hunter) was 15 seconds. Lucky procs, I think. Typical is more like 25 seconds.