Idk. Its your area of expertise
3 Likes
No it implies, correctly, that you are the reason youâre losing.
2 Likes
Is the game perfect balanced? No.
Is 100% my fault? Yes.
Pick one you canât have both
this mentality is not very fitting with the orc blademaster roleplay
5 Likes
I can have both, youâre just too dumb to realize that.
If you lose it is 100% your fault and simultaneously the game is not perfectly balanced, the enemy may start with 21 pieces on the board while you have 19, but if you lose it is 100% your fault.
Yes, iâm too dumb to understand that kind of logic.
You donât even understand how to apply your logic.
No its implying that the problem that starts the complaints is a problem that stems from inexperience or user error and not an inherent balance issue that needs to be addressed.
Thats why the answer is to get better. And why you were described as being outplayed above.
1 Like
which opinion are you referring to?
This one post 83 in this thread.
this is worth breaking down
i canât speak for anyone else, but thatâs not what iâm saying, for the precise reason that this is a team game even at the uncoordinated level of shuffle. even within the rng of teammate decisions+reaction times thereâs rng on procs and crits. itâs not a solved game and it happens in, for the most part, real time. hereâs how i would rephrase what you put in italics:
- itâs very possible to lose for reasons of game design, luck, or teammate misplays, but you canât control any of those things. what you can control is how you play, and how you play is 100% your fault.
- the game is not perfectly balanced at all, which is why the variables i described above are so crucial. when the enemy team plays perfectly to exploit a severe matchup advantage they have over you, you can still win by
** consistently outplaying them over a long, tense game,
** dramatically outplaying them in a critical moment,
** getting shockingly lucky,
** or just pulling a strat/move so unexpected that it flukes a win(not everyone will call this an outplay but i think itâs cherrypicking not to) - deep blue is probably going to beat you at chess even if you kneecap it with fewer pieces. so will most grandmasters, i assume(i donât know much about chess). the point of the analogy is that overcoming disadvantage is the single thing that most clearly marks a good player.
being unwilling to engage with the learning process to overcome disadvantage is so antithetical to the competitive spirit of pvp that it strikes a lot of pvp enthusiasts as misguided. if youâre not interested in getting wins/earning rewards by learning to play betterâŚwhy are you pvping?
4 Likes
Ty for link!
Yeah! Iâll go over that in a moment. But first, I wanted to address a point.
Youâre creating a strawman argument again. The game is not exactly 100% balanced, no game is. What people are saying is that despite imperfect balance, the game comes down to player skill in almost every single practical scenario. This is even more so when youâre not playing at the literal top of your possible skill expression.
Well yeah, you are, because youâre creating a strawman to misrepresent the argument. What would be more realistic is an analogy where you have a freethrow contest with HenryHpal or MarkyMage and they may have 1001 balls and you have 1000. If you lose by anything more than 1 free throw, then that balance did not impact you. They still did better and outperformed you and that âbalanceâ difference was not relevant, where your gameplay was. At your level of play, I doubt you have played a single game where you played correctly and lost to tuning, and that goes for myself as well and probably every single person on the forums sans maybe Petkick because that guy plays thousands of games every season at the top of his class and has for years.
Youâre not applying logic correctly here, though. Youâre literally applying a logical fallacy.
1 Like
I actually REALLY like this video example, because itâs super representative of what weâve been talking about.
- Despite nahj being just as effected by bop/bubble as you are, if not moreso since his damage is contingent on stuns and bop/bubble remove those while still maintaining the DR, he doesnât blame paladin or bop/bubble at any point. In fact, he regularly talks about gameplay mistakes that his team could do better (i.e. cloning off of stuns, poor talent choices heâs making, not stopping reps etc).
-Nahj misplays right in the opener. He opens without a stun, with no hots, and with his druid not in position. He makes some comment alluding to how he wants you to waste an ability which you donât. Really disrespectful play that nets him basically nothing here.
-30s into the vod, you make your first mistake and warbreaker with rogue not in CC. You instantly get disarmed and miss out on half your burst. Nahj gets ironbarked because the druid did 0 prehotting (and has bad positioning) and waited 10 years to come out of stealth. Despite being disarmed AND seeing that he has ironbark as well as hots, you send your roar here which is a total waste. Had you bolted first, you couldâve gotten more pressure and easily forced a trinket and/or cloak. Despite not bolting nahj, you couldâve feared him low on the ironbark and bolt + roared the druid and gotten pressure on 2 targets, as well as forced skin and created distance for your hpal.
-43-48 seconds. Druid wastes literally 5 seconds pressing treeform regrowths and 10% mana. You are both CCd and druid doesnât do ANY damage or Clone off. Eventually he sends a starsurge a full second after the bop happens. He eventually clones the bop after 6 full seconds and you trinket @~52s.
-Donât love this trinket because you donât have a ton of damage since you wasted your roar earlier. See how that was a bad trade?
You double fear the rogue and druid and your first two globals are to charge. and mortal strike. You break his fear so he gets a free step away when you couldâve just bolted him first and saved charge.
-59s. Despite letting nahj get away, he misplays and doesnât kick rep and admits to his mistake. You should try recognizing moments like that in your own play. However, since you didnt bolt early and wasted charge, you have to use leap AND bolt to connect. So because you didnât use your stun correctly, you wasted charge and leap for literally 0 gain. Iâm at 43 seconds since the game opened and you wasted 2/3 of your mobility.
You are running out of mobility because of things like this. You waste 2/3rds of it and this is a game you won. I imagine your losses are super similar.
-Still 59s, druid trinkets the rep and gets hoj instantly. This is a total waste of trinket because his only global is to refresh lifebloom LOL. He gets hoj instantly on it and gets basically no value.
-1:05. Rogue vanishes and you and your healer are off stun DR. Iâd intervene your healer here and press whirlwind to try and get rogue out, protect against cheap openers, and not waste rage/reset WB CD. Instead, you just waddle aimlessly for 4 seconds because you wasted mobility 
-1:09, Pally gets cheap, you donât disarm for some reason AND youâre in battle stance. You didnât even attempt to respond to his vanish reset. Despite this chain of misplays, the druid barkskins himself on literal air despite you never being in range or having mobility to touch him and not being in cc. Further, his globals while you and pally are in stun are to refresh lifeblooms and press mass root. Again, 0 damage and 0 clone on the stuns.
-1:14, druid reclones AFTER stun ends (and uses globals to refresh hots, not do damage and no repositioning for drinks/safety despite no skin or trinket). This gap lets pally heal you AND reposition away from gouge or swap followup.
-1:18 Warbreaker w/out CC again, Nahj has disarm and just doesnât press it for some reason. Not sure why youâre on rogue with trinket +cloak + vanish isntead of hitting the druid with no ironbark, no barkskin, no trinket, and playing in melee range. Youâre also freedomed, so you wouldnât even have to waste a charge; thatâs why your pally freedoms you there, not so you can waste it and stand still attacking the rogue XD
-1:21, despite not disarming your warbreaker, pally free reps druid and steps away. You react slow so they get to the pillar.
-1:30, you charge the druid and your first global is⌠rend? REND?! Press hamstring. He already shifted your charge root with cat + dash. Your next global is mortal strike. Still no slow. Had you slowed with hamstring fist, Heâd have to shift to travel form, then you could aoe piercing howl and root druid AND nahj and have some legitimate uptime. It also sets up a situation where your pally can just rep nahj and you can bolt and hit the druid AND STILL have leap/charge. Because you dont press slow and reapply it, you donât reconnect until 1:34 where you have to use leap AND stormbolt. You have once again wasted your leap - for the second time this game. Twice in a row, for the same reason.
-1:38 Despite no warbreaker, the druid presses tranquility on no cds and no hots on himself instead of just walking around a pillar. Because the druid wasted his roots earlier, he canât just root behind the pillar out of range of pally and take 0 damage AND top himself for free.
-1:42. Druid is tranq, rogue just stuns your healer. You can just walk around the pillar to not give him a step and youâd be 100% safe from an ENTIRE go. However, you ADAD aimlessly, not attacking anything, and then your paladin has to use human racial when you get stunned (in battle stance again, btw. Not sure why youâre still in battle when you canât even hurt the druid and youâre off stun DR).
-1:45, paladin bops you??? No blades, no on-use trinket, druid once again doesnât follow up the CC with leap+bash into clone.
-1:47 you donate precog to the druid, try not to do that. You bladestorm out for damage/cc protection. If you didnât give precog, I actually think you can just hoj nahj here and reflect the clone on healer and force rogue trinket. Druid has to ironbark because he never topped himself during the cc and didnt followup correctly.
-1:56 we warbreaker INTO ironbark without rogue in CC AGAIN and heâs right next to us for disarm. Druid panic barkskins on top of the ironbark even though heâs not stunned. -2:00 instead of disarming, nahj blinds you for peel and gets free repped. If he just disarms you, he can blind pally and kidney you in 4s and win the game with duel+blades unless pally bubbles instantly.
-2:00-2:10, healer doesnât dispell rogue Rep or hoj for some reason so he doesnât get free CDR on dance. Not sure what thatâs about.
-2:04-2:14 you literally donât use a SINGLE global. Druid is away, behind a pillar, topped and rogue is stunned behind you. Just hit the rogue. You actually CCâd yourself for 10 seconds to W key around the map for 0 reason. This is exactly why you dont waste mobility.
-2:18 first time in the entire game druid clones off a stun. HE DID IT! Heâs still not using damage globals on you despite you STILL BEING IN BATTLE STANCE, but heâs learning.
-2:20 nahj gaps stun and you press impending victory. REALLY good here, thatâs the best global you can press in that situation; awesome job. However, because the druid cycloned off of kidneyshot, paladin has to bubble. He had to do this because itâs blades and YOU forced your OWN paladin trinket 38 seconds earlier.
-2:23. Youâre off stun dr, and your first global is rend despite the druid casting a clone. It can only be on you because pally is in bubble. If you reflect you can bolt rogue and get his trinket here again. If you played better earlier, you could get cheat death OR kill here and win the game.
-2:35, you thunderclap and then press rend? You do know that TC applies rend, right? Why waste a global?
-2:38. You warbreaker AGAIN without a stun. Nahj presses disarm for the second time this game, and you waste another WB. Again, you roar into cen ward/full hots and while disarmed vs a rogue with trinket, vanish, and cloak. Feels like a waste imo.
-2:47. Off DR. Pally stun. Still in battle stance. No disarm. Honestly kind of a bad kidney here from nahj because pally is out of los so thereâs no clone followup, but he sends on-use anyways. Instead of following up CC or using damage globals, the druid reapplies lifebloom and cen ward and presses thorns. Nahj gouges off late and you get a heal which keeps you safe.
-2:57 druid walks into melee range for a double fear.
-2:58. You hit him through fear and you PRESS PARRY?!?! You and your healer are both on stun dr and NOT in CC and the druid was feared and you waste parry for 0 reason.
Despite the worldâs most random defensive CD usage, the druid doesnât want to be one-upped in a throwing contest and trinkets AND barkskins himself on a FEAR??? You also press reflect despite the druid not casting a clone. Your healer also has dispell + freedom so no point on trying to reflect a random root. Besides, the druid could just mass entangle the pally and root you through reflect so it wouldnât work anyways.
-3:02 pally tries to free rep druid which is really bad because he can just shift anyways, but gets kicked. You also refresh rend despite there being a rend already on the target for some reason, wasting another global which is pretty silly since heâs pretty low. You charge his step which is fine and you bolt him when the druid gets hoj. This is the FIRST TIME the ENTIRE game you have used cross CC with your teammate. 2 minutes and like 50 seconds in the game is the first time you do any kind of coordinated damage and even then itâs STILL not on your cds. This gets ironbark and vanish because they overlap and you swap to the druid. REALLY good play because he trinket + skinned air.
-3:09 Good target selection, but you rend first again. Stop that.
-3:14. You warbreaker in battlestance when youâre off DR and with rogue having disarm again⌠Nahj doesnât use a dance here off because pally is on dr, but druid couldâve half bash into clone and you couldâve been CCâd on the rest of your damage and potentially forced a trinket since nahj has a dance charge.
-3:23 oh jk, nahj just sends it late yolo and you trinket instantly because itâs on your damage, but itâs a waste because you already wasted 80% of your damage window and your healer isnât even in CC. You basically trinket just to press execute on an 80% health target XD
Rogue has duel + blades + trinket next stun DR btw.
3:28-3:30 druid wastes all tree form root DRs on you despite nahj attacking you and the healer having dispel. Just press wrath, lilâ bro.
3:31- you waste impending. youâre 90% and healer not in CC. and youâre still on dr for 10s.
3:39 paladin is freecloned, but you do a REALLY good job bolting nahj here behind pillar, but you waste your bladestorm almost immediately after because you let him get the step to healer.
3:50 you warbreaker AGAIN WHILE OFF DR. Rogue should just cloak here to remove the effects into a double stun go and win the game. Through pally trinket.
3:55 pally tries to free rep the druid, you should intervene him here to eat the kick AND stuns since youâre both stacked, off dr, and clone DR is fading (could get kidney/gouge into clone).
3:59. Your healer gets gouged. You have a global to disarm or shift defensive stance and you⌠Root the guy in melee range on top of you?
Stop wasting roots and you wont have these problems with uptime, man.
In all seriousness, you should lose the game here. But despite being in double cross CC with every rogue cd in the game, the druid doesnât press a single damage global for EIGHT seconds. The man refreshes hots and thorns while youâre both CCd. You get dueled at 55% instead of at 20% because the druid just doesnât do damage.
You end up living at 25,597 hp (@4:13) because the druid didnât press moonfire/surge/wrath/sunfire. Incredible.
-4:15 The druid actually lines up a low clone on the sac that WOULD line up with the end of reflect (because you wasted that for some reason) , and then decides to finally use a damage global⌠but its into the last second of reflect so he just starsurges himself for 6% hp XD
-4:18 druid 1/2 DR clones paladin, resetting DR (youâre both off stun dr in 5s) instead of just cloning you low during your avatar. You are STILL in battle stance btw.
4:24, druid finally succeeds in a low clone, but youâre at 347k instead of dead or between 25 and 173k when he had the window to do it earlier.
4:35. Druid bashes healer off DR. Youâre 44%. And off stun DR. In battle stance. Incredible. You actually press sweeping strikes into warbreaker instead of disarm or intervene to stop the gouge or just leaping awayâŚ
4:38 Nahj has gouge and re-stuns but presses neither and you get bopped. He could just gouge and druid clones out on healer and the game is over. If druid didnât waste the 1/2 clone before, he clones off the bash and wins the game instantly. Now you hit druid who barkskins, but also overlaps vortex?
4:48 you somehow manage to miss your leap on the druid. Despite you throwing, the druid tries to cross the map for some reason in human form o.O. because you missed your leap, you also have to charge and stormbolt to connect to the druid here. If you just leapt and bolted, youâd still have a charge to chase which really matters when heâs at 54% and oom. Once again we are wasting mobility.
4:50 nice bladestorm on the rogue peels and to keep uptime on the dying druid who trinkets and doesnât tranq with it o.O
4:52 you⌠reflect? What on earth are you reflecting???
That entire sequence, druid uses mana he doesnt have on thorns instead of dispeling the rogue with shadowstep, disarm, blind, and stun DRs with on use trinket against a team with LITERALLY nothing left. Oh, and he has tranquility which he still isnt pressing. Further, heâs trying to cross the map which is what is allowing you to charge to him. If he just runs around a pillar and keeps turning corners, youâll never get the globals to damage him and he can still turn it around and win since youâre finally out of everything.
5:02 you win the game!
You did win this game, but I wouldnât say you âbeat a 3k playerâ. Nahjâs druid lost the game half a dozen times. You really didnât do anything to outplay ANY go anywhere in this entire 4 minute and 45 second game. Youâre consistently wasting mobility, youâre not lining up your damage with CC, your target selection is questionable, youâre randomly wasting your roots and your fears seem randomly opportunistic at best, youâre not using your utility correctly. You are just kinda PVEing and stunning off DR and hoping it works. THIS is why you are at the rating you are at, not class balance.
To circle back to your own (questionable at best) analogy, even if sub rogue and rdruid have comparatively 30 pieces each and you and the paladin have 20, your paladin used all 20 of his, you used about 14 of yours. Naj may have used 28 of his. but the druid used like 4. The overall state of game balance had no impact on this game because people arenât using their pieces correctly and not even using most of them at all.
THAT is what people are saying and youâre obstinately refusing.
13 Likes
1- any game against druids will be possible to narrate in the same quality as you narrated
âyou could stun hereâ
âyou could interrupt hereâ
âyou could LOS them hereâ
âdruid could clone here, you could damage or clone DR hereâ
âyou should stop damage, intervene hereâ
It will happen 100% of the times in all games i guarantee you.
good narration, just forgot to mention that druid has a massive advantage gap over other healers in 2s
2- if you want to blame druid, i donât think its a good idea, he has more rating than my healer, which means objectively nahj lose the game with a healer more efficient than mine, this kind of argument works in my favor
I thought you were asking in good faith but these statements are proof that you are a passive/aggressive troll.
Walltext TL;DR
You did nothing, druid bad
any player in the world would beat nahj in this situation.
You had the ability to say this, referring to a 2s match, where one healer has 16% representation and the other 2,5%.
You are the kind of man bias enough to say druid has no advantage on 2s
just for the sole purpose to attack me
Yes. Thatâs what Iâm saying. Thatâs what everyone is trying to communicate to you. You can always play better and unless youre consistently playing at the literal top of the ladder, that better play will matter more than any game tuning.
I didnât forget to mention it. I just did a vod review, man. I watched your video through once, and then watched it again and paused at timestamps when I saw anyone make a mistake.
There were several mistakes from both sides. Your paladin overall played probably the best, the only mistakes i saw were that he couldâve rotationally added more damage between goes and kinda sent a couple yolo reps as well as âwastedâ one bop, but still got some value out of it.
Nahj overall played well, but missed two full disarms on sets of cds, missed two defensive cloak usages that couldve saved his healer 5-10% mana (which matters when the healer goes oom) and missed an offensive cloak that wouldâve won him the game.
You and the resto druid made an overwhelming amount of mistakes. Yours were smaller in nature, and the druids were literally game-defining.
This is my point and this game as a whole trounces the argument youâve been trying to make. Rdruid is the overall âbetterâ healer in 2s when you look at rep, winrates, ladder placement etc. And the resto druid LOST. despite playing a multi r1 player. The game balance and tuning DID. NOT. MATTER. This game. The deciding outcome was the team that overall played better won the game. Sub rogue couldâve had ice block, treants, and blink or alter time and the outcome would have been the same.
I was asking in good faith and nothing in my vod review was hostile or inaccurate. You made several mistakes; everyone in that game did, including the multi r1 player. Iâm not going to apologize if your feelings are hurt.
You did not outplay anything here, nor did you attempt to. You didnât even press intervene or disarm, you never used stuns or fears to allign with your damage or disrupt the enemy go, you likely werenât even aware of when you and your healer were on/off DR.
Offensively speaking, You pveâd and pressed your cc randomly and won the game on mana. Defensively, you did a really good job sneaking in impending victories in gaps and got carried by the paladin for the rest.
Thatâs not even close to true and you know it. I literally gave timestamps for mistakes that every player made and what they couldâve done instead.
But yeah, I think you couldâve substituted really any 16-1800 warrior in that game and the outcome would have been the same. And thatâs BECAUSE you didnt outplay or use your toolkit, and you wasted so much mobility, man.
Yes. And the healer that had the 16% representation lost the game to the healer with 2.5%. So the overall balance/tuning strength didnât impact the game; player skill execution decided the outcome.
RDruid does have an advantage in 2s. The game isnât balanced around 2s and Iâm not attacking you either.
This is a game that you went out of your way to record, save, and upload to youtube; itâs obviously something youâre proud of and thatâs totally okay to be proud of a win. However, your gameplay is full of mistakes and there are SO many things you could do better to help yourself climb. Unfortunately, you will never improve and never climb if you donât recognize your mistakes for what they are.
2 Likes
I donât know if this is a semantic error, but what you said is objectively wrong
regardless of how the outcome was, balance will always impact the match
It is possible for a chess player with 19 pieces to beat a player with 20 pieces, the fact that he won does not mean that having 1 piece less had no impact on the game
20 min after my match, nahj played against a warrior 2400, with the same druid as partner and they won, iâll upload this game later
No it is not.
Everything I mentioned in the review happened and at the timestamps in the video. Anyone is feel free to go through and check this.
Okay, THIS is you arguing the semantics of impact vs influence.
I can throw a pebble at someone and it will objectively have a literal impact. That impact, however, will not SIGNIFICANTLY influence or change the outcome of whatever action or event theyâre performing.
In that game that I reviewed, the resto druid could have had a 5000% damage buff and the end result would have been the same.
Then nahjâs team probably played better!
Iâm happy to review that one well.
Like i mentioned in the review:
-Nahj made a few mistakes (missing 2 full disarms on cd, gapping several stuns, and misusing cloak)
-The hpal made only a couple small mistakes and none of them were super significant; he easily had the strongest performance in that match.
-you made several mistakes that ranged from inefficient to downright game-throwing, but didnât get punished for them
-the druid kinda threw the entire game.
That doesnât mean that nahj and the druid couldnât run it back and beat a 2700 cr war + hpal either. They would just need to play better than the other team.
1 Like
Iâll refute you on this so you wonât repeat anything about it anymore.
4:03, nahj best shot, i only survived his shadowy duel because i objectively stopped him through stormbolt + fear + reflect druid starsurge, while druid objectively cycloned my healer not one, but two consecutive times while i was bursted, this window my healer was ccâd 4 times, yet i survived
This objectively refute your statement 
I did stop his go. Alone.
You wrote impact, not influence.
As I said, you got it semantically wrong.
This is not âmyâ interpretation, impact meaning is just not what you meant.
My god, man you are dense. This guy is going far above and beyond to help you and youâre literally too stupid to accept it.
5 Likes
Thatâs not what happened, though. Watch the vod. Like I said,the druid didnt put in a single point of damage and you lived with 23k hp. Any damage global from the druid when you were stunned instead of the four he spent hotting and the 2 he spend shifting+charging and you were dead.
Yes, your healer gets cloned off, but youâre in duel anyways and he wasnât playing glare so heâs not helping you there. The clone doesnât matter at that point.
Yes, you do stormbolt him and he trinkets instantly (he evasions instead of cloak immunes for some reason) and then you fear him and IMMEDIATELY break the fear.
You also press reflect in panic while still in the duel. Theres 1.4s left on reflect. Druid is cloning low, then cancels his clone to surge the reflect and then clones off late.
You didnât outplay here, the other team just didnât execute.
It is absolutely your interpretation, because anyone and everyone else can watch the vod, read through the commentary, and agree with what Iâm saying.
Did you press disarm or intervene a single time that game?
Did you ever stun nahj when you sent your damage cds?
Did you ever reposition in response to DRs?
You got carried by your healer and still almost threw because your trinket and parry usages were useless. The other healer just played bad enough that you got the W.
1 Like