Magic Schools

Now at the tail end of BFA they say that while necromancy is typically done with Death magic, you can do so with Light magic.

Which actually isnt unprecedented. In WoD we see Gul’Dan raise the corpse of Magtheridon with Chaos magic, and indeed see the Legion do the same all over, well, Legion. There’s also spells like Shadowmend that uses the typically offensive Void magic to heal. And of course Life and Light magic aren’t at all adverse to being used lethally.

So is there any real upper limit on this?

Could a Mage figure out how to heal wounds with the Arcane? Could a Priest bind demons to their service with the Light? Could a Druid use their domion over nature to manipulate blood and bone like a DK? That is all natural afterall.

Seems like the setting might benefit from some hammering down of Source and School. Like in D&D for example a Cleric and Wizard might both use the spell Decompose which is Necromancy. But what power theyre drawing from to do so can be drastically different.

Do you think WoW would at all benefit from that sort of thing or should it be kept vague? Vagueness has it’s benefits afterall. You can’t screw up what’s unexplained and it certainly gives more freedom for RP.

But on the otherhand more structure could give a better sense to class identity. Several classes have seemingly interchangeable specs, some with even the same name as is the case for Resto Druid/Shaman or Frost DK/Mage. How or even if they’re using this seemingly synonymous sorcerery any differently from eachother could be some nifty world building.

It’s really not a pressing matter. Magics kind of inexplicable by nature so it need not be explained. But it could be interesting to have a firmer idea of how it’s wielded at least.

7 Likes

I think that without some kind of explanation cosmic powers start to lose their relevance.

Stripping back the veil of mystery in the universe, poking at the nuts and bolts and pushing arbitrary in anti intuitive fashion is a good way to unravel the credibility and immersion of the world.

3 Likes

Cosmic Forces and Elements are Magic Sources while Holy, Shadow(not to be mistaken for the Cosmic Force of Shadow), Fel, Arcane, Nature and Necromancy are Magic Schools.

Death uses Necromancy(Maldraxxus and Mawsworn Death Magic), Shadow(Drust, Revendreth and Mueh’zala Death Magic), Arcane(Bastion and Broker Death Magic) and Nature(Ardenweald Death Magic).

Arcane healing and necromancy is already a thing, usually through time manipulation in the former, and good ol’ fashioned self-made lichdom in the second with Meryl Felstorm. If you want to be pedantic, resurrection is just perfected necromancy, too.

2 Likes

What Sarm said. Utilizing the arcane to heal wounds isn’t technically healing them, but rather using chronomancy to unwind them - there was never a wound in the first place that needed healing.

As far as Priests binding demons to their service with the Light and Druids utilizing their power over nature to manipulate blood and bone, Priests would not be able to bind demons to their service with the Light, and I don’t think Druids could manipulate blood and bone like a DK, but not sure on that.

Ultimately, any pinning down would be as solid as silly puddy.

If there is a new dance craze that has a meme name, Blizzard would make it a spell, and the story can come afterward - or never at all.

I think there is a difference between vaguery and simply avoiding pigeon holing one’s self.

Some things are better left unsaid, if they will likely be retconned by the latest meme.

1 Like

There’s no such thing as formal discussions of magic let alone schools of it in Warcraft

The only known "school’ was Scholomance, and their jam was necromancy. It was also headquarters for the Cult of the Dammed.

Basically, there is no positive lore support for any of the questions you asked. The Lore doesn’t reply no, but it doesn’t ask those questions either.

What we consider blood magic already falls under life on the cosmic scale, even if it’s a bit twisted, so yeah.

I don’t think it’s even needed, the different cosmic power spheres and their energies have some innate properties that make them more commonly used for certain things, be it the light healing or life helping things grow, but with enough finesse then you can use any energy pretty much for anything. And it’s fine to have it like that. Defining it, even more, will only unravel the mystery and lock in the cosmic forces more.

As we’ve seen necromancy using arcane, fel, death, blood (life), light, void. Or see mages using arcane for their water elementals which they control either by enslaving regular elementals with arcane or creating simulacrums made out of water. Compared to shamans who make deals and ask the natural elements for their aid. The result is quite close either way.

And as you’ve said we’ve even seen the void being used to heal, and every other cosmic force too. Even arcane can be used as we’ve seen the ogres use arcane for healing, even if that cosmic force does not naturally lean towards healing.
The only big no no seems to be mixing the power of the forces that fully oppose each other. Like the void and the light.

2 Likes

Medivh was resurrected by his mother Aegwynn, a mage. That bit of lore was from the Metzen era.

Illidan was a mostly-demon dude who was quite nearly “bound” into service of the Light by a talking chandelier. And then there’s Lothraxion.

Druids can transmute their skin into bark and shapeshift into animals, I can’t see why they wouldn’t be able to manipulate the rest of themselves. Remember that class titles are a gameplay element that doesn’t apply to most creatures in the setting. Blood Trolls could be construed as druids, shamans, and warlocks at the same time.

Magic in Warcraft exists to serve whatever the writers need it to be capable of doing at the time. There are no set power levels or concrete rules-- and frankly, I think it works far better without that structure.

I’d rather they focus their efforts on creating stories that can’t be solved by firing the MOSTEST POWERFUL LASERBEAM at the big bad dude.

Stories where violence is the only resolution to conflict inevitably leads to power creep and a complete dissolvent of genuine narrative stakes. We already know that [X character] will eventually be “powerful” enough to shoot [Y character]. What makes a story interesting is knowing why shooting [Y character] won’t actually resolve the conflict.

I think hard sciencey magical settings with structural rules and rigid sets of abilities tend to focus heavily on characters bending or creatively working within those rules to win their battles, at best. That’s fine for a Brandon Sanderson novel where not everybody has magic. In a setting as full of astronomically powerful magical casters as Warcraft is, magic shouldn’t be the solution to important narrative problems.

She was a Guardian, not subject to the usual rules limiting Mages. She made herself immortal as well. Khadgar on the other hand, can’t manage either.

1 Like

As Drahliana said, Guardians tend to say ‘lol no’ to the typical rules of mages and magic. Medivh for instance is powerful enough to where Deathwing would refuse to fight him willingly, in addition to personally ensuring no mage would ever get anywhere near Medivh’s power.

The only non-Guardian mage capable of doing similar feats would be Queen Azshara herself.

In addition to the Guardian power, Medivh was infused with the power of Sargeras as well.

That’s also true. If I’m not mistaken, it was stated that Medivh had more raw power than his mother, but Aegwynn held more experience.

1 Like

In a sense they could use time-magic to reverse wounds much like the Dracthyr do via tapping into the Bronze-Dragonflight powers bestowed upon them.

Given Demons can cast aside their wrathful nature and turn away from chaos to a different cosmic force (Eg. Lothraxion) - I’d wager it’s a possibility … However if they’re in service to the light already I’d wager priests wouldn’t be comfortable binding them against their will - unless it was a contract like warlocks and they can resurrect them via summoning.

In a sense, yeah.
Blood, Bones - Along with decay & death itself are the mirror reflection of life, and used through different druidic cultures. Apparently it’s what the Drust used, however their lust for vengeance twisted it. It’s also what the Gnolls use in the Azure Span (In Dragonflight).

Given our encounters with the past though, I’d wager it’s harder to control and invites a vulnerability to dark forces into one’s mind, heart & soul. Whether forces from a realm of death, the twisting nether with various beings along with demons or in usual cases more likely the void …



This all aside though, I’d like if Blizz could give classes some spec-quests to unlock a new spell-aesthetic for their spec - and include references to various races (especially if you are said-race!!) – which would help lore & whatnot move along too.

You could have:

  • Void Using ‘Holy’ Priests (Good for Mag’har & Void Elves)
  • Holy Using ‘Shadow’ Priests (Good for Blood Elves & Light-Forged Draenie)
  • Mistweaver Monks with different colour mists (Honestly they should had been silver / white & cloudy from the start)
  • Mage with the option to choose different colours for arcane (Such as the blue variant, instead of purple) and to make Frost & Fire spec spells give arcane visuals.
  • Undead Using Demonology Warlocks (Replacing Shadow spells with Death visuals, and Demon pets with undead pets, along with different names for them)
2 Likes

for things like shadowmend i think its more an aspect of the fact that the void fills stuff, fills in the cracks, fills in the damage yea? I think with things as esoteric as fluid as magic seems to be in this universe as long as you can fit it into the overall concept it works. Light bringing people back from the dead is probably having the light of their souls, due to the fact the concept of the light in their eyes dying when they die right? With the legion though… fel magic has been infiltrated by death for a while. Dreadlords being beings of death and them using frostmourne and the helm of domination… and we also see them using void magic so yea.

A priest could probably forcefully lightforge a demon like the naaru tried to do to illidan, and then control said demon. Druids probably cant manipulate bone the same way due to it not being about nature but life. Blood on the other hand they probably can but the concept goes against their own and most likely wont do it.

Not that it helped. Medivh stripped his mother of all her magic save that which made her immortal. Aegwynn would eventually burn that last remnant of magic to help Jaina, sacrificing her life to do so.

Sigh, there is a apparently is a persistent rumor that a few Devs actually want to implement this for a VERY long time, like green fire quest for Locks.

I think it started around the idea of class skins… Void Knight (DK) and Void Paladins.

However apparently with the time restriction or deadlines the amount of work it would need to be implemented, not to mention a part of the community apparently are against it because to their understanding is “lazy” and rather have new “Heroic” specs or Classes… added to that the Covid, SL and that nasty stuff that happened it was apparently drop. (Those are the rumors we don’t know if they were true or not)

However seeing DF being such a huge success if the community bans together long enough…maybe just maybe we can see it happened by the end of DF.
Then again this was just a rumor, so its hard to say if the Devs will want or can make it happen.

However I do agree that the potential and freedom it gives players to RPG in WoW would be really incredible…specially with talks about all races being able to play all classes and taking down the faction limitations for PvE.

I can see Night elves Paladins and its moon priest wilding Elune Light… same as Tauren with the Sun… Forsaken Druids wilding the Nightmare, Blood Elves Shamans using the Elements like the Primalist do… Void Elves with Void Paladin or Void Knights (DK)…

Interesting enough, I personally have NEVER play an MMO that lets you customize how your power look… with the exception of really old Superhero or Warframe games that you could color change the powers or change how they look.

I think it would actually make Blizz the first and probably the ONLY MMO that lets players customize their abilities… it definitely will put pressure into the competition for sure! (IMO)

You know what they say: “Fashion is really the only true endgame!”
:kissing_heart: :selfie:

I really wish the Devs, specially the Leadership and the older Devs in Blizz could actually see it that way to put the pressure to make room on their schedule for each expansion to go full on, Customizations for all Classes and CC!
The few times they done it has been soooooo good!

Oh well we will have to see I guess…fingers cross!
:crossed_fingers: :grimacing:

2 Likes

You can do it here to a limited extent with glyphs.

1 Like

Well I kind of subtlety mention it when I said this: :sweat_smile:

Its a shame, after Legion, they didn’t continue it as much… I would have LOVE to have Black Kyrian wings for my DH!
:drooling_face:

As for the Cosmic Forces’ capability to purge Magic: Enough Arcane, Nature, Fel and Light can purge anything as shown with Western Plaguelands(purged of Decay by Nature), Brackenhide Hollow’s Leylines(purged of Decay by Arcane), Shadow-Lord Iskar(purged of Void by Fel), the Blood Elves(purged of Fel by Light and Arcane), Lothraxion(purged of Fel by Light), etc.