Mages and Aggro

Ive heard that mages are broken in the amount of aggro the generate. As a tank I cant say if that’s true or not because of the way most mages play. Every mage Ive grouped with will cast aoe spells while Im still running to collect the mobs, havent even cast a spell yet.

it also seems like none of them have heard of the 130% rule. They all run up and cast their aoe spells in melee range, then stand there the whole fight. Mages if your out of melee range you can get 130% of my threat without grabbing aggro. Cast 1 short range aoe spell and then run back out of melee range. keep doing this over and over if all you want to do is cast short range spells.

Ive never played a mage before so I dont really know how they work. Can someone who has played a mage in a top raiding guild please help others with advice on how to keep from grabbing aggro. I never raided in vanilla but I did from BC onwards and mages never stole aggro like they do now.

People expect AOE from mages. But mages should wait for you to at least get the pull together.

Some mages aren’t specc’d right and they rely on Arcane Explosion too soon.

A good rule, however, is did you die? If not, then who cares. Shut up and make the next pull.

2 Likes

as a rule when a paladin is tanking, they should wait for you to place consecrate before attacking.

just give them a heads up at the start of the run “let me place consecration before you start attacking” if they keep being trigger happy, call them out directly.

also, make sure you’re using blessing of salvation on everyone else, 30% reduced threat generated is HUGE.

My thoughts on Mage AOE in dungeon runs.

  1. Once a mage starts AOE, there is nothing a tank can do to get aggro back, doesn’t matter what tank. so when the healer sees a mage doing the AOE thingy, they should direct their healing on the mage to help with AOE.

  2. Mages should only AOE the mobs they can finish with their mana.

It makes sense to AOE a multitude of mobs with little HP but it doesn’t make sense AOEing elite mobs with lots of HP. A mage can iceblock for survival but eventually will die from hits. So, don’t start the AOE if you can’t finish them, cuz once you pull aggro, there is no turning back.

4 Likes

Meh a feral druid with improved thorns can hold aoe threat on several mobs at once. Every mage i’ve ran with has loved me.
Edit: Lvling spec not raid tank spec.

yeah, pally can hold threat fine as well, at least I’ve never run into issues with my aoe groups.

except when I’ve forgotten to turn on righteous fury (why the hell is it a 30 minute buff and not a toggle?)

Sigh

Every day the same thing.

1 Like

[quote=“Shut up and make the next pull.”
[/quote]

And here is exactly the reason why you cant find a tank. Everyone thank this person for your hour long wait.

10 Likes

Yeh, I dont tank for pugs anymore after getting 60 guildies/friends only.

1 Like

I play a warrior and i actually love having mages in group. For one, their aoes keep the damage on them if they get agro and NOT on the healer. Without aoes flying around, if you miss a mob with sunder then it will run to the healer. It’s better on a kiting mage. Two, they always frost nova the mobs down. You know what you do? You plant your fat tank butt right in the nova and let the mobs hit you since you are in their melee range, once it breaks you taunt or let it slowly go for the mage who will kill it anyways [they are usually at 10% hp by then].

The BAD are DPS warriors. The majority of DPS warriors i have ran dungeons with will charge as soon as you pull and then whirlwind, they turn the pull into a wreck. Then they will 9 times out of 10 roll on tanking gear and anything else they “maybe might NEVER” use. No thank you.

4 Likes

My main is a tank, lvl 45. I decided to roll a mage to see waz up, and the mage is now lvl 35. First, it took 1/2 of the game played time to get the mage to 35 as it did to get the tank to 35. But as to AOE, in dungeons, it almost never makes sense to blast AOE spells - - not during the tank’s pull and not later either. Almost is not always. Basically it is smoother and less tense if dpsers mow down one mob at a time with single target abilities. Usually it is obvious what the tank wants done, or the tank marks skull, X, etc.

But sometimes AOE is helpful if the tank has pulled 4 or more – and has established aggro – AND there are 2 or more aoe dpsers who coordinate on the group of mobs. Still, it is easier and faster to stop the AOE rotation to quickly freeze a runner heading for the healer than to somehow just keep blasting at the original pulled group. Doing it this way (using AOE sparingly) I almost never gain the aggro and the runs work great. Just did BFD and then RFK that way.

BUT sometimes I have been in a pug of almost all aoe-ers and the tank is a shaman, not a warrior or a druid. Then the style shifts a lot. It can go fast, it often includes some deaths or near-deaths. It is exciting. But that is when there is no consistent tank. Hunters or rogues or shamans all can do the pulls. But, for me, it is not as fun as more traditional tanking with mostly one target at a time.

3 Likes

Dude, you clearly are bad. Look at me and look at you. Do I need your filthy five man tanking ability? No. I’m progression raiding.

Tanks asked ME to join them in runs leveling.

1 Like

And how does that have anything to do with the attitude of people like you who make it harder for groups to find a tank? Nothing!

6 Likes

If you are a PvE mage in classic, you shouldn’t stand in melee range (it increases your threat) and you should get any threat reduction talents and the Subtlety enchant.

That said, a mage pulling aggro is not a problem if they can handle it. If they can kite the mobs around and it doesn’t result in loose mobs, adds, or higher incoming DPS than a tank standing there taking it all through their steel suit, then it is a win.

If the mage is getting insta-crushed, mobs are splitting up into groups of one to teach your healer a particularly brutal lesson in the fine art of multi-tasking, or the healer’s mana pool is being drained through a cloth sieve, then it is a loss.

In classic, a mage can pretty easily pull aggro even with single target. One advantage there is that a tank’s taunt right after a mage’s aggro pull will generally buy the tank a good bit of time to build threat ahead of the rest of the group. Frost mages are particularly nice for this because ice block provides insurance, if necessary.

Ultimately, the ideal is minimizing incoming damage and maximizing outgoing damage. Kiting mobs does a better job of minimizing incoming damage if it is controlled. It may or may not maximize outgoing damage depending on group composition and discipline. Either kiting or traditional tanking may be more favorable than the theoretical ideal depending on group composition and individual character horsepower.

I guess the bottom line is this: if a mage can pull aggro and benefit the group by doing so, then do it. They just need to be able to handle it and communicate what they are doing to the group. Generally speaking, it is a more suitable tactic to dungeons than raids (there are a few places in BWL and AQ where you can let a mage loose). As a tank, I would be open to it as a legitimate tactic and try switching your focus to catching loose mobs (look for mobs outside AoE, healer aggro, or ones taking a lot of single-target/snares/stuns from that damn rogue) and dropping some tank-deeps. If the mage can’t handle it, switch back to old school.

EDIT: Mages don’t have a threat dump in Classic but, aside from that, they don’t generate any more threat per unit of pre-talent damage than other class. They just hit like a truck. This is a good thing so long as the mage can restrain themselves or use it to the group’s advantage depending on the situation.

4 Likes

In most of the pre-60 dungeons, we don’t even really need a tank. Four mages and a priest work fine for leveling purposes.

1 Like

And that why tanks are now charging and getting paid to run dungeons…

FFS… could you be anymore tone deaf?

4 Likes

i thought paladins were healers… you sure you’re a tank? can you prove it?

LMAO! Pull your head out of your ar$e! What a an absolute flog :joy: :joy:
Bet the mrs gets all kinds of wet when those tanks ask for you directly!

Some people are just garbage not just at mage but every class so the melee range blizzard mages are only temporary until you move on into higher level content past a certain point. I see you’re level 40 though so that’s concerning you mention that happening at that point in the game… regardless any dps worth their salt knows letting a tank acquire agro is needed within the first 2 seconds of a fight especially a paladin who have incredibly high threat but no taunt. Once a paladin establishes a foothold it’s very hard to remove it and it doesn’t take very long either. Perhaps verbally communicate to not aoe until at least 1 or 2 frostbolts have gone out.

Unlike some classes like rogue who have a negative modifier (0.8 threat mod) to threat mages have a threat mod of 1.0 on spell cast so if they hit a 500 with frost bolt they gain 500 threat. Your job as tank is to beat this number of threat generated so no it isn’t broken you just need to be able to do your job and gain threat quickly something paladins are great at doing

They know, they don’t care.

Because back then, grabbing aggro had consequences and tanks weren’t afraid to stand up to bad DPS. Now, many tanks I talk to either sigh and trudge through it or defend the DPS. Until you get enough of the tank community to stand up to DPS and make them realize that they’re respinsible for their aggro, you won’t see any changes. I stopped tanking PuGs for this reason.

3 Likes