Mage is designed differently than any other class in SOD

I am a class designer, and mage has been my main class since vanilla. While playing SOD from P1-P4 I have noticed that the mage Runes, the direction of the class, and over all class design philosophy has been inconsistent. Here are some interesting elements of why the Mage class is designed differently in SOD than any other class. The intention of this thread is to showcase the design differences.

Class Identity
What is class identity? How do we define it? Before we can define that, we must define what a class is. A class is an avatar of a role. Class identity is best described as your class fantasy in what sets you apart in gameplay, combat and how you perform your abilities as well as distribution of abilities.

In Vanilla WoW, the Mage’s class identity has been a glass canon with some interesting crowd control utility. We were known as the class that has the best AOE. This is no longer the case. This brings me to the AOE section.

AOE
Blizzard and Flamestrike has been replaced in power by Living Bomb, Living Flame and Frozen Orb. Arcane Explosion is still somewhat viable. The mage class AOE ability design direction is about placement of mobs, which is dependent on the tank keeping aggro in a cluster. The design of these abilities have a travel time that diminishes the active duration before it can even deal damage. If a tank pulls out of that cluster and the mobs run wild, our AOE DPS is significantly diminished. As a mage player we are solely dependent on others to have effective AOE damage. Not to mention the lengthy cooldown for Living Flame and Frozen Orb that other classes don’t have to deal with.

I have also learned that Warlocks has a rune that allows their Shadowbolt to split up to 5x. They simply cast Shadowbolt and it splits. In this instance, the Warlock doesn’t have to deal with durational travel time of projectile as it will deal damage no matter what when it interacts with the hitbox. Hunters Explosive Shot is very similar but with only 6sec cooldown.

Up Time
The mages Up Time in combat is by far the worst in game due to mana inefficiency. Our mana pool is eaten up quickly during aoe pulls and single cast. We have to drink more than any other class between encounters which results in more downtime. Sustained damage and burst damage is not balanced as Enhancement Shamans, Locks and Hunters can provide some sustained damage, and their burst comes with critical RNG. I have noticed that Sustained and Burst damage is not designed the same. Burst windows have a longer downtime and can’t be as competitive in dungeon groups for an example, especially with chain pulls. We do have access to Evocation, but with an 8 minute cooldown and we cannot perform damage unless we have Living Flame or SOD rune aoes active on the target.

Strength vs Weakness Balance
Balefire Bolt here is interesting because to my knowledge, its the only rune in game that has a negative status effect (debuff). It further removes the mages mana regeneration by debuffing our spirit, and we only get 10 casts before it kills us. This is actually an interesting strength vs weakness balance, but why does not other classes have the same design direction? Strength vs Weakness balance is actually a step towards correct class balance, not homegenization.

Illusion of Choice
From the very conception of the spec system in Vanilla WoW, it was inherently flawed and automatically creates class imbalances. However, the reason why the initial designers choice that direction was to combat the long LFG hours in EQ, where a class can have multiple roles.

Frost Mage has been taken out of the viable spec in SOD classic and has been replaced by Fire Mage. Frost and Fire should be competitive with each other or the “Elemental” spec of fire/frost. The spec system and talent trees has always been linear, bottlenecked one dimensional gameplay with no real player agency. I found an interesting elemental spec that has been working for me in dungeons, but fire is still superior.

Design Recommendations
I want to preface that there are probably multiple factors a class designer/rune designer has to consider in its conceptual phase that could cause certain things in the design process to not get designed properly.

Class design is a very layered approach with specific rule sets in each layer that is balanced in each layer. Provide a defined structure and then allow players agency within that structure without punishing their agency. Consider how class design is approached with complete gear dependency and how that affects all classes in many avenues of gameplay.

If you decide to have a strength vs weakness balance in some abilities and not others, consider why that is and how it can negatively affect gameplay. Strength vs Weakness balance is a core design choice that should be on the first layers of class design.

I hope you found this interesting.

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I think the reason baelfire bolt is sacrificial in that way is because blizz didn’t want balefire bolt going thru DS unchecked by anything

mage lock sham kinda hard counters pally unless pally has the right rune setup then mage bullies pally out of iconic class ability and unique strength with bale

):

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it’s a new game. mages are healers in pvp now. mages are also hybrids. yeah mages are underwhelming, but it is what it is.

I’m still having fun playing one though. Even though mage parsing in MC is just a meme at this point lol.

Illusion of Choice

I think this is more of a problem with the ease of switching between runes. And respecing needs to cost more because people are better at farming gold.

If you restrict people from constantly switching you WILL see fewer people jumping on the flavor of the month.

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RIP living flame. 2023-2024.

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Cap. Ret takes a wet poop all over mage if he has something, like a cave or a building to stand inside. Aka, a pillar. Just don’t chase the mage in the open and he can’t even kill you without ooming.

I really hate takes like this. Yes lets make classic even more time consuming. I often wonder if these takes are from the employed.

More time consuming? You aren’t meant to switch between classes between content.

If players are doing that then you need to increase the cost of respecing until they stop doing that.

I dropped my mages, yes one of each spec, for a shadow priest in SoD. The Spriest isn’t the best at anything really, but it sure is fun to play solo.
Mages just ducking suck in SoD and WoW. You did a good job at pointing out some key problems with it.

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  1. It’s sod, not vanilla.
  2. Why not? it’s sod.
  3. If it’s an issue then turn off spec swapping except in citys.

melee and ret are op vs mages if they have LOS for sure

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Adding a Time Gate between swapping specs is not how you fix the meta.

As a Game Designer, you can’t really fix the meta, its inevitable. You just have to mask it to now be as easily accessible. Agency is important, but the best design allows limitations within a defined structure to allow players to have full agency without unnecessary restrictions.

The meta happens because of many factors. Not balancing the core foundational class design and role design. Linear mob AI scripts, and power creep to name a few issues.

Nether Tempest and Glyph of Ice Lance’s cleave effect would go a long way to addressing the issues with mage right now. Your AoE explanation is spot on.

Blizzard ticks not critting is another issue because a frost mage who wants to AoE isn’t getting benefits of shatter when channeling it.

Another issue is how haste works in vanilla, you can’t get the playstyle satisfaction of an icy veins → quick blizzard on trash pulls.

Fire works fine because it didn’t need much to bring it up to a modern gameplay standard. Arcane and Frost, though, still need some help.

My favorite way to play right now is a full frost build that uses spellfrost bolt + arcane barrage instead of frozen orb. Frozen orb is incredible, but we pull things way too quickly so it’s a clunky playstyle. When it’s up, I’m on top, when it’s not, I might as well just not participate. Maybe we’re meant to be drinking when orb is on CD.

Anyway, arcane barrage is just better than ice lance, it feels great, and it has just enough DPET (with spellpower) to hit right after a spellfrost bolt to consume a FoF if it procs, reducing my brain latency requirement. Sometimes both crit and it’s casino joy. But of course, why would anyone do this? The math puts it way behind fire, and you really just can’t play arcane DPS properly in its current state, which feels quite sad given its non-existence in original vanilla and what feels like a squandered opportunity to correct that.

I feel that more and more the problem has always been in our talent trees, which improved slowly as time went on. Arcane is really empty, runes will never fix that. What might go a long way to fix the situation is Nether Tempest. Spammable cleave, feels great to cast, to watch it unfold, compatible with arcane, frost, or spellfrost build.

There’s just this tantalizing allure to me of a spellfrost identity but it needs something more.

But yeah, the mana costs are outrageous and it’s just a punishment. 3400 mana to rebuff int is a human rights violation as I make my party wait on my mana multiple times as I try to get ready to play.

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As a Paladin, for two separate runes, I had to go into a bar and beat some dude up/engage in a bar fight. I would say most of the classes probably have some questionable elements to their class identity in this version of WoW to say the least.

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And that’s when i stopped reading. Get real.

Yeah. I don’t know what they’re thinking. I believe one of the designers worked on Classic wow 2019 launch. In a recent interview the designers basically said that they’re using SOD to test for Classic +, to see what works and doesn’t.

I am a class designer

Seriously what is this level of arrogance? You don’t work for blizzard, stop giving yourself titles.

You really had to necro a 4 month old post to say that ?
Way to go mate…

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The term necro is one of the most ignorant things on earth, why does it even matter how old a thread is? Are you the master of all forums? No one is allowed to share their opinion after people stop replying?

You sound really fun to be around.

Get off the forums if it bothers you, get off the internet if it bothers you, every-time someone uses that term and cries about reviving a thread I just want to punch a kitten.

Please delete your account, do the forums a favor, do all of the community a favor.

So to answer your question: Yes, I did you pathetic forum troll.

Go touch grass.

Ummm, this thread is about mages in wow not d4.

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