Mages have not been S tier for almost a full expansion now. Can our cooldown please not have eight levels of counterplay?
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This is basically how paladins feel about defensives.
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Their only defensive that is disepalable is BoP
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Technically [Divine Shield] also is by the right tools, but so is [Ice Block].
That being said, both [Icy Veins] and [Arcane Power] are now undispelable, but [Ice Form] and [Combustion] are still vulnerable to dispels.
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I suspect that these are kept intentionally and not because they were forgotten to be added to the list, because one is a very powerful offensive CD and second is a stun immunity with much shorter CD than let’s say Icebound Fortitude.
However, there could be a compromise - let purges not remove them entirely, but rather reduce their duration by half of maximum and no longer affect after that. This still keeps purge as a counterplay to these spells, but does not render them useless the moment it is applied.
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Icy veins is now undispelable which is nice for frost. Was basically useless before in a pvp setting.
Kind of wish they would buff alter time so when it gets purged you at least get your old HP back.
Combust being dispellable also makes it really weird for me, some games goes well others i go up against enchance that can just purge spam it making it useless unless my partner gets a stun
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This isn’t a bad idea. I’d be happy to see a chance to resist purge/steal on these… It still keeps the counterplay potential while still allowing RNG to eat more globals. Flat reducing the timer is a little too reliable in my opinion since we’re exclusively talking PvP.
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Divine Shield is too. I was more referencing that Aspect of the Turtle isn’t.
Strangely enough, I am often cancelling Ice Block early that seeing it being Shattered or Mass Dispelled has been trivial compared to the number of times I have Divine Shield broken (despite that once upon a time being the Paladin class claim-to-fame).
Combustion and alter time are next! Good job Blizz.
I don’t think you’re aware of how overpowered it would make that ability =P
Alter time is perfectly fine as it is. You got to be sneaky when you’re using it, and you have to make sure to the line of sight the person with the ability to dispel (which is nearly anyone at this point).
The ability to use alter time is one of the things that differentiate a good mage and an average one.
No you’re just used to how crappy it is and since you’re a great player you’ve learned how to adapt. If you have to be sneaky using a defensive then it’s garbage.
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Alter instantly working when dispelled is not as powerful as many of you think. When it is dispelled, you still lose uptime of it that could be used to soak damage. For example, if your Alter is dispelled on 3rd second, you get 3 seconds of soaking and lose up to 7. This is even not much different from other defensives - they provide their value until get purged. If Alter is purged, it provides zero value.
If the effect is too powerful for baseline, it can just be tied to a PVP talent that would make Alter reset on dispel and maybe additionally do something bad with the pesky purge spammer.
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Great idea. Purge spamming is another PvP issue imho. Needs a cooldown.
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I REALLY hope you aren’t talking about Fire when you say you haven’t been S tier lmao.
Fire has been S tier since Legion, even more so in BFA and now SL.
It isn’t even close
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I agree but I first read this from an Enhancement Shaman perspective, and that’s where I did have some issue.
Enhancement especially loses too much mana to not use it strategically. The best you can do is try to steady Purge (think Hunter with Tranq shot CD management) but if you dip too low on mana, the lack of defensives locks you in as the kill target. I’m okay with Enhancement being a strong dispel threat, but that’s rarely how it pans out because of mana and field position to do your damage.
The prevalence of a Purge-like ability is the bigger issue, where most classes have some kind of consume or spellsteal. And unlike Enhancement, which ties the use to your most effective defensive (mana for self-heals), there’s virtually no downside to pressing it on cooldown.
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DPS Shaman and Shadow Priest can also purge spam with little drawback. Idk, I think theirs should cost a lot more mana at least in PvP.
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Clarified that post to be Enhancement specific. I feel that spec is most balanced when it comes to it… That’s my habit when I read “Purge” instead of thinking the general offensive dispel category.
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I don’t know the ins and outs of Enhancement mana management, but I hear often that they heal for too much, so maybe that’s a way to help keep their healing in check somewhat, at least against comps that have important magic buffs. Despite Enhancement being very good this tier, I still haven’t played that many games against them to notice, just a few Turbo teams here and there.
I feel like dispels could use some kind of rework in 10.0, both defensive and offensive, I just don’t know what to do with them.
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Wings has been more powerful than any mage CD all expansion.
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I would say enhancement is viable this tier for PvP – the “very good” designation is a hard sell.
In PvE, they are very good and that’s probably the only reason they’re still viable in PvP. The lack of consistent CC or any decent defensive cooldowns to rotate is a hard restriction to overcome.