Is there by chance we will see more tuning/buffs to frost on 8.3 before it goes live or as it goes live? The 20% Ice lance buff is nice, and brings the Ice lance build back on par with NoIL, however. It is not enough. Both GS and IL frost are SIGNIFICANTLY behind fire and by a large margin. Not in just Multi-target by Single target as well.
Yeah all the trolls and casuals are gonna say you can play any spec you want. But we all know if you want to be somewhat competitive there is always one spec that has the edge. Which is fine and dandy. Except that Frost is not anywhere near marginally close to fire at all to even consider playing it.
I also feel somewhat the same for arcane as frost but not in the same manner. Arcane has the potential to put out ridiculous numbers in its current state. and surpass fire in ST. However, it requires God-like RNG to not have to do mechanics otherwise you severely are punished in the dps throughput for it.
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Agreed that frost needs work, but what’s worse is the 20% IL buff didnt bring the standard ice lance and spike build back on par, it just made frozen orb build best for 8.3 and left no IL a bit below that and standard a bit below that. It needed a bigger buff, and honestly they ought to consider changing flash freeze to buffing glacial spike and ice lance dmg or something rather than icicles, as icicles just A. get fired off as you spam frost bolt looking for a brain freeze proc, or B. get fused into the glacial spike. If the buff was instead to glacial spike itself, and also buffed ice lance, the No IL build would cease to be viable, and the standard build would rise above it. the only concern then would be that the frozen orb build would still be top, but perhaps go a step further and lower the orb’s dmg a bit and put that dmg into ice lance again. At this point, standard with spike is the best frost option and probably the only option for the spec.
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All of them are. People know that blizzard will never reply to, acknowledge, or even read 99.9% of the stuff posted in any of these forums
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“[17 days later] - dead class forum”
That’s pretty funny.
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So no one jumped on your bandwagon, therefore your conclusion is the class forum is dead…interesting spin 
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To be fair… the class forums are sorta dead nowadays. Heck even altered time seems sparse. I think most of the discussions are now had on the class discords.
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wait… how on earth did i miss this?
If we look at metrics for spec representation across the entire game and all it’s xpacs frost has been the highest represented spec in nearly all of the game… now frost isn’t the best mage spec and you’re upset about it? wtf. lol… I cant even (literally white-girling right now)…
I agree the specs should be closer in performance, but whinging about frost not being the best is ridiculous… if anyone needs love its Arcane mages and I cant stand the majority of them lol 
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arcane is simming as a god spec for 8.3, so much so ive been getting subtle jokes directed at me for remaining frost and considering fire if it have to, but refusing to play it cause its so terrible (arcane lacks even a sliver of visual reward to its play, as it feels the same at all times except for the dmg and has no cool animations. it also sucks having to manage mana in 2020). frost shouldnt be a top dps spec, but realistically these days id love to see all specs within 5% of eachother or something, allowing you to play what you want at any lvl, and just have there be that tiny sliver of a boost for playing a harder spec for top world players or that lf a challenge. the mechanics of a boss fight can be made quite a bit more interesting if your spec isnt too rough
Why?
Also as far as those sims go, if they’re the same ones I’ve been looking at I wouldn’t take them at face value. 5 minute patchwork fights are always going to benefit Arcane massively, same with the NoIL build. In reality those are two specs that get punished pretty hard for movement and mechanics, of which there seems to be quite a few. Arcane will likely be the go-to for Shad’har and Maut though, but the rest are going to benefit Fire over the other two specs (passive cleave, aoe and large burst).
Except that it doesn’t because Arcane will ALWAYS get screwed by raid mechanics.
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Word on the street says arcane is one of the top dps specs for Ny’alotha.
In response to the asking of why frost shouldn’t be a top dps spec, it’s just too simple a rotation for it to be. it should be CLOSE though imo. In an ideal world we would have all the dps specs within like… 2-3% of eachother on st, 2 target, 3 target, aoe, etc, because the top world players would be doing the top spec anyways regardless of how much harder it was due to any reward at ANY cost. It would basically be “play what you want, and as long as you play it well, it’ll be right up there”
I would agree that NoIL is too simple a rotation, but the FOrb build includes: Frostbolt, Blizzard, FOrb, IL, BF, and potentially RoF plus any essences, racials, trinkets. The Normal GS rotation includes: Frostbolt, GS, EB, IL, BF, Orb, CmS.
Now compare this to the other two Mage specs, and many of the other top dps specs in the game and you’ll see that it has about the same number of spells in a ST fight and in some cases more.
You are correct though in that a perfect situation would be to have all the classes within that 5% that Blizzard promised us, as opposed to the 20% gap between the top and bottom specs that we currently have.
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Too bad they balance by nerfing the classes doing well instead of buffing the classes doing bad.
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umm no i just ran heroic warfront and and did some keys im undergeared and still was top damage with ice lance build what are you talking about . and thewere were 3 fire mages that oiut geared me by allot and couldnt keep up mabee its just you
Lol vordros. Please stop trolling.
Go check raid logs for latest raid. Fire is at the top and frost is dead last.
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Which is insane in itself. Ok lots of discussions on some discord server. …uh but not the OFFICIAL game forums? so backwards. The devs should communicate here, it only makes sense but what do I know.
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Who would’ve thunk it. A spec that was performing poorly in 8.2 and scales worse than most other specs is doing poorly in 8.3… Hopefully Blizz isn’t going to just ignore it again and will push maybe an extra 5% aura buff onto us.
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Because the Class Discord servers usually don’t tolerate people pushing false and misleading info as fact, the Mage forum discussions are well known for being completely incorrect on things at times and refusing to listen when someone calls out incorrect information, so people gradually just left for Altered Time.
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