One more reason I say the Mag’har recruitment scenario was bad writing.
Back on topic, the fact remains that Mag’har refers to being the Orcish definition of uncorrupted and by becoming warlocks, they cease to be Mag’har.
1 Like
Rexxar, a Mok’nathal uses the male Kul Tiran rig. The rest use the basic orc rig iirc. Also I think Zandalari uses the night elf male for their males, and troll females for their females. In terms of basic skeleton that is.
Blizzard did come out and say that the Kul Tiran skeletons were 100% original and not based on an existing race. But they didn’t do the same for the Zandalari.
BFA had much worse examples of poor writing. The Mag’har recruitment scenario was handled well enough.
Isn’t that the groundwork of an interesting story character then? A mag’har that forfeits their place among their clan in the pursuit of power. Or an outcast who couldn’t give a flying $#%# about being uncorrupted if it meant being powerful.
That’s the warlock class in the nutshell. Those who don’t care about the opinions of others and seek the forbidden for their own desires. To say that races like the Draenei or Mag’har are above such desires not only goes against what is already in the game’s lore but sounds like wish fulfillment. No one is that pure or infallible.
Whether it was enjoyed or not, the Mag’har recruitment scenario was loaded with plot holes;
- Why wasn’t Yrel herself Lightforged?
- Why didn’t the Ogres join Yrel’s group sooner?
- If the Arrakoa use the Light through their goddess why weren’t there any in Yrel’s group?
- After what he did with the Iron Horde, why is AU Grom alive, let alone allowed to have a position of authority?
- and more
Even putting aside my feelings of distaste for it, they still remain.
I’m not saying they’re above such desires, I’m saying that if they choose to become warlocks, by definition they’re no longer Mag’har.
The whole point of that scenario was to give the Horde Mag’har orcs and to leave a story hook. Of course it had it’s flaws, but it was done so in a way that would make players wonder what’s going on. Thirty years had passed and a lot could have happened. Even during the scenario most if not all the Lightbound were neutral npcs who wouldn’t attack unless we attacked them, showing that the scenario was meant to give the Mag’har sympathy from Horde players. We haven’t seen it from the Alliance Lightbound perspective yet. Blizzard intentionally didn’t give us the full story of AU Draenor’s fate because that would probably take an entire patch that would divert attention away from BFA’s story.
We don’t know yet because we aren’t suppose to know. We were there for the Mag’har and that’s it. The rest will be dealt with at later date, likely some time in the next expansion if the rumors about the Void threat coming back are true.
You are right, but that doesn’t mean that it would stop these orcs from seeking the power regardless of being declared as no longer “Mag’har”. Such is the price of taking up fel magic.
If we don’t have the whole story, which I agree with you on, why do so many fans - who otherwise love to harp about “morally grey” suddenly assume the conflict is a black and white “poor innocent Mag’har vs big bad Light fanatics”?
I never meant to suggest it would stop them from taking up fel magic. Just that they’d no longer be Mag’har if they did.
For the hundredth time, not all warlocks use fel. You can be a warlock within the context of warlock lore and not use fel.
2 Likes
I think you mentioned it, but doesn’t one of the demonology warlocks in the legion class hall use bloodstones/blood magic to bind demons?
1 Like
While I know they don’t use just fel, I’m not sure if you can have a warlock who doesn’t use Fel at all. Can you give me examples of warlocks who don’t use any Fel?
1 Like
Yup Kira Iresoul adapts the bloodstones we found back in Vanilla that are blood magic and heavily implied to be Old God related
Bleeding Hollow would be able to bind demons sans fel
2 Likes
I can’t give you examples because we have no examples of warlocks being meaningfully developed beyond the MoP Lore and the Legion Warlock Questline lmao
You have scraps you can pull together and that’s it, but it is possible as it’s been presented
Being part of the Mag’har isn’t the same as being part of an orc clan.
Being Mag’har is a condition that references the fact that you are uncorrupted.
If you become a Warlock a.k.a. Corrupted, you can no longer be labelled as Mag’har a.k.a. Uncorrupted.
Could there be orcs that decided to become Warlocks? Yes.
Would they still be considered part of their respective clans? Probably (depends on clan).
Could they still be labelled as Mag’har? Absolutely not.
That’s why, in order to conciliate the Mag’har with the Warlock class, the only alternative is to discard the notion of them being any kind of Warlock we’ve seen so far.
Because as seen in novels like Rise of the Horde, even those branches that do not dwell in Fel directly, end up being corruptive.
If Blizzard wants to add the mechanical aspects of the class to this playable faction, the only way to reconcile it with the factions premise, is to have them be such in name only.
And adjust the backstory and visuals, to portray an iteration more in line with the limitations that come with the playable Mag’har as a concept.
2 Likes
Because we were given this scenario during a faction conflict heavy expansion and from the PoV of the Horde coming the aid of their allies. People didn’t like seeing the AU Draenei, who were clearly victims of the orcs, now appearing to be the aggressors. From what I can only assume, neither side if really at fault in regards to Draenor and because of the way the timeline was created it is now decaying and will inevitably be destroyed. More than likely the Lightbound will jump ship to the main timeline at some point before AU Draenor is gone entirely.
If they are willing to dabble in the fel despite all the warnings that were given then they are willing to pay that price. If I remember correctly warlocks are slowly turning into demons themselves, it would make sense for Mag’har orcs to at some point begin to turn colors. Though stuff like that is something that won’t be seen in gameplay but will canonically happen to them.
1 Like
While I haven’t seen any, I’ll concede it’s possible.
https://giphy.com/gifs/editingandlayout-the-office-thank-you-michael-scott-5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU/fullscreen
You don’t need to discard the notion
That is incorrect
- Ritsynn uses uncontrolled elemental magic from the Firelands
- Kira Iresoul uses Bloodstones to bind demons
- Maghar Shadowmoon already use void
Voila: Maghar warlock is simply a Blackrock, Bleeding Hollow, or Shadowmoon Clan Orc.
The lore is already there but separately across different characters
Just need to smash the bits together
Which I’ve already explained this to you repeatedly
This is not new lore, just a new combination of lore
1 Like
The Warlock practices do not need to necessarily tie to Fel in order to be corruptive.
This bit is from Rise of the Horde:
The first shaman stepped forward, moving her hands and murmuring slightly. The little creature at her side squawked and jumped about, then suddenly fire erupted from its clawed hands to slam into the hapless draenei. At the same moment, a ball of … darkness … formed at the shaman’s fingertips and rushed toward the prisoner (1). It grunted in pain as its blue flesh was blackened and burned from the small creature’s attack, but it dropped to its knees in obvious agony as the shadow ball struck it.
Again the shaman muttered something, and flames erupted from the very flesh of the tortured draenei (2). Where before he had been stoic and silent, now he screamed in torment, his cries muffled somewhat by the gag in his throat, but not completely. He jerked and spasmed on the earth, flailing like a fish freshly hooked, his eyes rolling wildly. Then he was still. The reek of burned flesh filled the air.
For a moment, there was silence. Then came a sound that Durotan had never thought to hear: cries of approval and delight at the sight of a bound foe dying in helpless torment.
Durotan stared in horror. Another prisoner was slain for “demonstration purposes.” This one was beaten with a whip by one of the fairer servants of the shaman (3), standing transfixed while fire rained upon it, and darkness pummeled it.
- Afflicction.
- Destruction.
- Demonology.
These Warlocks (former shaman) employed spells from all three specs without even needing to invoke Fel itself.
They show proof that the practices that corrupted and destroyed Draenor, weren’t all tied to Fel itself.
Yes, the book that introduced the Black Harvest gave us additional peaks regarding how certain Warlocks studied other sources of power to incorporate to their spells. But fact remains, that the overall practice of these arts, has been demonstrably described as being corruptive on itself.
It doesn’t matter if Ritssyn learns the basis for the Cataclysm spell from the Firelands, if the channelling and casting, taps into the same energies or involves the same incantation process, as the Shadow-bolt.
That’s the reason why I think that the only way to reconcile class and race for the Mag’har, would be to remove all relation to the traditional class on a lore level.
Even if mechanically Blizzard needs to label it that way.
And lean on aspects that do not strain as much against the cultural/ideological aspects that Blizzard chose to use to create said faction: Dark Shamanism, Void usage, etc.
PS: Not a fan of the alternative, as i think that subtracts from the classes they already have that cover those bases. But well, its my middle ground here.
EDIT:
Another bit regarding how Warlock practices are corruptive even without Fel. Same novel:
“I don’t understand,” Ghun said. He was the youngest of the clan’s warlocks, and still, Durotan mused with bitterness, an idealist. He had seen Ghun’s nose wrinkle at the strange creatures he was forced to utilize in the battle against the draenei. He had seen the youth’s face filled with regret as his enemy writhed in agony before him. […]
Ghun’s sharp-nailed, long fingers had been working in the dead earth and had dislodged a stone. He tossed it up and down in his palm. Durotan frowned, looking at the boy’s skin. The dryness of this place and the harsh conditions under which they had been laboring for nearly two years now were taking a toll. Normally smooth brown skin, stretched tight over toned muscle, was dry and flaky. Absently Ghun scratched at a patch of rough skin. Durotan glanced at the new skin underneath.
It had a greenish tint.
A Warlock that uses demon pets and Affliction spells. Still turning green.
2 Likes
Thank you for posting this Gerwin!
No problem!
I think that regardless of how flawed and bad, her more recent novels have been, Rise of the Horde remains one of the best lore bits outside the game.
Christie Golden did a good job with her take on Orcs before the corruption.
I personally think Christie Golden gets too much flak from people.
She writes quite well, but when it comes to books like those attached to a franchise owned by someone else, they’re often heavily scripted (in the sense of what can and can’t be written and what the major plot points are) and then other people will go through the book to make sure everything is up to snuff and if it isn’t? Back to the drawing board.
There’s a lot less freedom there when compared to writing your own work.
I don’t want to go on a tangent here, and derail the topic, but I agree….to some extent.
I think that a Golden isn’t always bad, but that she also leans on a series of tropes and angles that often make up REALLY BAD stories.
Often those involving Baine and Anduin.
But as I said, don’t want to derail the topic so I’ll leave it there 
1 Like