Blizzard won’t do that.
They couldn’t even be bothered to put a Mag’har Orc in the Warlock Quest.
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That kind of exaggeration tends to mark the arguments I see about this particular case, but it’s also representative of how people tend to position themselves on almost every topic on this forum.
You’re wanting to define the whole of being a mag’har and lightforged by a small part. And this is a classic logical fallacy.
It’s possible as we’ve seen in almost every narrative involving warlocks that there are outcasts in mag’har and lightforged draenei societies.
It is possible that certain individuals have an ideological change and start to seek their own goals for selfish reasons (which is what defines being a warlock).
None of this deconstructs the lore that established these allied races. This has nothing to do with the core cultural and ideological aspects that define these races. This is merely the choice of individuals. And these individuals do not have the power to redefine the culture of their race. If so, the culture of many Horde and Alliance societies would be defined by warlocks, demon hunters or death knights.
And they are not. And the reason is simple, they’ve always had an outcast fantasy, even in Legion when they’re saving the world they’re seen that way. Even on the orc heritage quest the warlocks feel surprised to be present. Because they still remain outcasts.
They have never occupied any major political position in any Warcraft society, and only relevant political actors are capable of redefining the core characteristics of a race’s culture.
So there’s no way I can take what you’re saying seriously, as this applies to all existing races, and there is no impediment that the same prejudice that marked the experience of being a warlock in all these races also does not fall on lightforged draenei warlocks and mag’har warlocks.
You don’t even know how the npcs of that race will position themselves when that happens. And that just goes to show that this position of yours is merely conjecture. For there is not even any hint as to how this will come to pass. And mere game experience teaches us that they will be merely outcasts as all other warlocks, demon hunters and death knights tend to be in their respective races.
Your argument would only have some validity if we saw for example kaldorei becoming worshipers of the fel because of their demon hunters. As far as I know the race remains the same worshipers of nature that they always were.
So why in the case of the kaldorei their culture was maintained but in the case of the mag’har and lightforged it would be destroyed? That just demonstrates that your argument is meaningless.
Because you want to define entire races by stereotypes, and the lore shows us that they go beyond that.
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No…
I’m defining them by the literal core themes that Blizzard used to mark them apart.
The main difference between LF Draenei and regular Draenei, is the ideological differences that led to Lightforging.
The main difference between Void Elves and Blood/High elves, is the ideological differences that led to Void infusion.
The main difference between Blood elves and Night elves, is the ideological differences that led to their isolation and subsequent cultural shift.
The main difference between Mag’har and the baseline Orc faction, is the ideological differences regarding Warlock practices, that led to their “incorruptibility” and physical distinction
You can have iterations on said themes, but the basis are what they are.
This isn’t some minor discrepancy about whether be a Paladin or a Priest after being Lightforged. Or whether Umbric is being a Shadow Priest, a Mage, or a Warlock.
If you want to keep coherence in the story, you can’t just dismiss the lines you’ve drawn to create the faction you presented.
“Races” in WoW, do not always follow on racial differentiation. But more often are lines drawn from ideological clashes amongst those of the same race.
And the ideology that marked the Mag’har aside, is the trauma and prejudice they developed against Warlocks.
This is the thing…Mag’har are far more defined by their ideology than by their race.
They are Orcs. But Orcs under several SPECIFIC conditions.
And the most dominant condition is the fact that their are IDEOLOGICALLY prejudiced against warlocks.
Hence why they take pride on being the “Uncorrupted” ones.
If an orc discards said IDEOLOGY, he NO LONGER is part of said collective.
If said different ideology wasn’t important, the Mag’har would’ve been a customisation option for MU Orcs.
I’m not defining races by stereotypes.
I’m defining factions through the ideological differences they present.
If you remove said differences, you completely erase the purpose of creating a completely separate faction.
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Where did you get this? What defines mag’hars is the simple fact that they rejected Mannoroth’s gift and did not become the Legion’s slaves.
Has the race always cultivated within their clans practices of magic with the same degree of corruption as fel, or are blood and void magic less dangerous than fel?
In addition, the Mag’har’s ideological affiliation logic has never been greater than that of the Kaldorei, they are races with the same degree of intolerance in relation to activities involving fel. And dhs live perfectly well in kaldorei society. Something you oddly ignore in your argument to try and make it valid.
As I already said, if you think this deconstructs the core characteristics of the race, first you will have to prove that dhs also deconstruct the kaldorei core characteristics. And you won’t be able to do that, which just proves the fact that you’re arguing about something that doesn’t have the relevance you want to assume.
And you greatly overestimate the ideological degree that defines being a mag’har, they have shown themselves to be a much more tolerant race than you assume, they were the most faithful soldiers of Sylvanas, they became allies of races that have obvious aspects of corruption by fel.
Where was all this intolerance of theirs at that time? And why is this important just now?
You can’t just apply your logic when it suits you, if the mag’hars are these uncorrupted paladin supremacists why do they insistently associate themselves with corrupted races and follow corrupted leaders that are only alive because of death magic?
You want us to believe they weren’t able to understand that fel magic is like any other magic?
None of this undermines the core aspects of the race, you just want to insist on a point that would only be real if the same applied to other races, and as I said if that doesn’t apply to the most purist race in the game the kaldorei, why would would it apply to mag’hars?
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Or maybe mu orcs drank demon blood and the whole planet was saturated in fel so they got corrupted. Au orcs are just channeling fel.
And sinxe they changed old demo where they actually took fel in and became demonic/retconned that then yeh. Maghar are still uncorrupted
Guldan was green long before fel saturated dreanor…
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That and the open rejection of warlocks, as seen with how they treated those that decided to work for the Shadow Council.
Or other samples such as the gossip text that we have in characters like Geya’rah:
Their belief blinds them, binds them to masters who seek to control the universe as surely as the Legion did.
Draenei… eredar… so willing to bend the knee. So prone to corruption.(*)
Which highlights their mindset regarding those who meddle with certain cosmic energies. Be them “slaves” to the Light (Draenei), or to Fel (Eredar).
(*) This comes from the leader that labelled her faction “The Uncorrupted”.
Sure.
But one thing does not negate the other.
Garrosh had a zero-tolerance policy regarding Warlocks too. And that didn’t stop him from considering using the Sha to boost his Horde.
Fact remains, that the Mag’har developed a very specific bias. And that is against Fel initially, and the Light afterwards.
That doesn’t mean that they can’t delve in other sources of power, regardless of how corruptive these are.
Of the top of my head, they have Void users (Shadowmoon), Dark Shamanism (Blackrock), Arcane (Shadowmoon again), Necromancy (Bleeding Hollow and Shadowmoon),…
But yeah, they drew the line with Fel. It is, what it is.
Debatable.
But the point here is that it was notable enough for Blizzard to categorise Mag’har as a separate faction.
In a similar way as they did with the Nightborne and the Night elves, or Blood elves and the Night elves.
Once you mark said distinction, if you want to maintain certain degree of coherence, you can’t simply backpedal.
It’s one thing to accept working alongside other factions, and other entirely to radically change oneself.
And the point has nothing to do about their tolerance regarding others. Is the internal consistency of the individuals that make up the faction.
If you are part of the Mag’har, you pride yourself on certain ideals. If you discard them, then you are obviously no longer part of said faction.
As I said, its the equivalent of being a Draenei that refuses to go through the Lightforging process: you can do that, but then you can’t claim to be part of their group.
If I say i’m a vegan, I can’t simply eat steak on Saturdays, and proclaim i’m still a vegan.
No.
I want to lay out the fact that Blizzard decided to create the Mag’har by leaning on their ideological differences with the rest of playable Orcs, regarding the usage of Fel.
And having them be now Warlocks, goes against said basic principle Blizzard themselves laid out for us players.
Because, the Kaldorei as a race aren’t exclusively marked by said distinction. They are a race, in the most common sense of the word.
They aren’t a subfaction of a broader collective, nor do they need to be differentiated through cultural or ideological aspects.
Their rejection of Fel isn’t the defining aspect that marks them apart from the rest.
But for the Mag’har, regarding the rest of the Orcs, IT IS.
The main difference they have with the rest of Orcs, is precisely their stance regarding Fel and Warlocks.
That was the whole point of WoD: To create a collective of Orcs that avoided the implications of going down rabbit hole of corruption that Gul’dan started for the MU ones
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This is not reflected within the lore.
The Orcs were corrupted by the use of warlock magic. This has been confirmed multiple times. The desecration of the planet came after the wide-spread corruption of the Orcs, not before.
If a Orc uses warlock magic, they change colour, they become corrupted, therefor, they are no longer Mag’har, they are just Orcs.
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Why do you insist on turning a choice of individuals into a defining aspect of an entire race?
The point raised here that is obvious and undeniable is that individual choices of a given group or people do not reflect the culture of a race. I gave an example that demonstrates the fallibility of the loss of lore coherence with a race that is central to the narrative. You refuse to acknowledge the self-evident fact that some individuals may be deviants from the norm in any society.
Even though the mag’hars are now living in a social ecosystem that gives ample evidence that fel magic is not evil incarnate as they thought, or rather you want us to think.
Your argument that it is what it is does not apply, and there is other evidence in the game that points out that the same thing happened to other races in the game. The existence of users of a certain school of magic had a negligible impact on the culture of these races, it was not able to minimally change the aspects that define them and it did not even needed a retcon.
Your not acknowledging this and saying that all barriers of logic have now been overcome is merely choosing the facts that suit your argument.
Because said choice is literally the reason why said faction exists!!
As I already explained with multiple examples.
EDIT: The Mag’har (playable) aren’t a “race”, they are a faction of orcs that follow on some principles that ultimately marked them apart from the rest.
The “Choice” (ideology, or whatever), is the CORE of their existence as a separate entity/faction.
Again:
If i create a faction made up by Vegans, and one of them starts eating meat. HE IS NO LONGER A VEGAN. And he can NO LONGER say he is part of said faction.
Meat = Warlock practices, in this analogy by the way.
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This is perfect!
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Perfect way of representing this in an analogy.
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No she wasn’t.
If you want to have an honest discussion about this you first have to consider that you don’t have all the information to make this kind of claim.
What it means to be a mag’har may change tomorrow. And they can just say their new title is Defenders of Bananas. Just as they can claim that fel magic isn’t that dangerous after all. Incidentally, it embarrasses me that you think you can correct the lore writers in this regard, since they are simply stating that a mag’har orc is whatever they want it to be, and that it is a cultural concept that as in every culture can change over time.
But one thing I see in your argument is that you confuse lore with gameplay.
Mag’hars are just orcs, as you said yourself, choosing a certain unique customization is basically what differentiates them from being standard orcs. So following your premise that mag’hars is something immutable, the explanation for mag’hars warlocks depends solely and exclusively on the RP of each individual who wants to play as a warlock using the customization of mag’hars orcs.
And that’s the fun of an RPG, you can build your own character’s fantasy. Unlike your obtuse vision, which has the malleability of a diamond.
So a mag’har orc who chooses to be a warlock may well be kicked out of clans that mag’hars are a part of. And that doesn’t negate the fact that he’s only been expelled from a clan, and can no longer use a title.
All these inlore decisions would change absolutely nothing for the mag’har faction, he would be a mag’har orc because of the gameplay, not a reflection of his inlore decisions. It would just mean that they have one more class option, which is merely a cosmetic decision, and that the mag’har stance remains the same.
All of this does not interfere with the trajectory of the race, because since you want to use the lore, most mag’har did not even choose to be mag’har, since the WOD events were 35 years ago in their timeline, and the mag’ har were either children, teenagers or not even born at the time as Geya’rah.
Your definition of veganism doesn’t even have any relevance to the discussion, and I’m a little tired of you comparing apples to bananas and thinking you’re making a very intelligent argument.
As I’ve said countless times, these warlocks will likely just be outcasts in their societies, as are the warlocks of all other races. So the question posed here is that the decision of these individuals does not hurt the meaning of being mag’har for those who consider themselves to be true mag’har.
And these orcs chose to go their own way, the only difference between them and a standard orc is simply aesthetic. Because players who decide to play with mag’har warlock will have access to a certain customization. And that’s a gameplay decision not a lore one.
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Mag’har are pointless now. Their entire story was them resisting corruption. What an L move Blizzard.
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Ummm…
He is right, and has all his information correct. Although i disagree with his night elf remarks, he is currect in stating the entire theme of the maghar orcs is that they reject the practices of fel magic and are either more traditional leaning or technological leaning depending on clan.
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I work with the information given so far.
Further down the line, Blizzard may pivot in whatever way they consider, but as of now, the faction is contingent to certain themes, background and characteristics.
Could they have a 180º change that completely changes what the faction is about? Sure.
But that change hasn’t happened yet.
Just because a writer suddenly disregards his own story, it doesn’t mean i can’t call it out for what it is or point at the inconsistencies they are creating.
I’ll point again at my Vegan analogy: The moment you start eating meat, you cease to be a vegan.
The moment an Orc starts using the corrupting practices they wanted to avoid, he ceases to be part of the collective that rejects said practices.
Mag’har aren’t “just orcs with a particular customisation”.
The Mag’har (playable faction), are an orc faction from the AU, that is defined by their reject for the practices that corrupted their MU counterparts.
Something, that in turn, allowed them to maintain the physical characteristics their race had in the MU before said corruption.
I’ll repeat, that was the whole point of WoD.
That was what Garrosh came looking for: A collective of Orcs that weren’t tainted by the Warlock practices as the MU ones, were.
A Mag’har that rejects the principles that define his faction…ceases to be a Mag’har.
It really is that simple.
Any Mag’har Orc that decides to be a Warlock, is no longer a Mag’har Orc.
He/she becomes just an Orc.
Mag’har = Abscence of “Warlock corruption”
EDIT:
The examples and comparisons I’m making, is to point out a fact that you keep on missing.
The Mag’har aren’t a “race”.
They are a group of Orcs defined by common ideology.
The Warlock class is an addition that goes AGAINST said ideology.
That means, that those that follow the path of the Warlock, are effectively abandoning the ideology that created the Mag’har faction.
So yes, my Vegan example regarding those that decide to start eating meat, certainly applies. As did my comparisons regarding the LF, the Blood and Void elves, etc.
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That can be a plot uniting the clans together. 
And I want Ner’zhul and not some no-name Blizzard threw in the plot because the entire Shadowmoon Clan is now considered extinct.
Ner’zhul should rest, he’s been involved in too much.
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